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WTB Snow Trac

Taxrulz

New member
I'm new to the Forum, although I've been lurking for a bit, and looking to buy a Snow Trac. Originally I wanted a Thiokol Spryte, but have been told that is too big.

I live near Salt Lake City and need to access a cabin without reliable winter access. Our cabin is a Swedish Stuga, so a Swedish Snow Trac would be perfect addition.

We would like to find one is as good as condition as possible. I'll probably be reaching out to a few on the Forum with questions about them.

Thanks in advance,

John
 

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
excellent choice and very value for the snow cat money!

hope you find exactly what you are looking and yes, there is a wealth of knowledge about snow trac here
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
John,

First, welcome to the forum!

I live not too far from you in Park City, and as the screen name implies I'm a Tucker aficionado. I bought my first Tucker over ten years ago and as yet have never owned a machine from another manufacturer (yet I have tried three times).

A lot of people on these snowcat forums are big fans of the Snow Trac. Guess how many live it Utah? That's right...not a one. I look at ksl.com weekly or so for snowcats, and have done so for probably 10 years: over 500 times... and I've never seen one Snow Trac listed that was a Utah based machine.

Utah snow has lower moisture content than the snow that falls in the Sierras, in the Pacific Northwest, the mid-west or the east coast. We also get more snow. There's another issue to remember. Normally aspirated engines lose about 3% of their power for every 1,000' gain in elevation. At 8,000', you've lost roughly 1/4 of the engines power.

There was a forum member from SLC who had the screen name Utah Wilson and he had a Snow Master, which is a Snow Trac with significantly wider and longer tracks as well as completely different grousers. (In fairness I almost bought the machine when he sold it, but had I bought it replacing the VW engine would have been Job 1.)

The company that built Snow Tracs ceased operations decades ago and parts can be difficult to darn-near impossible to find. Winter is a few months long and if you want a machine to access your remote cabin, presumably you want it to work reliably, and be available when you want to use it. Buying a machine with known parts issues is a recipe for disappointment and frustration.

Here's a challenge for you: Google "snow trac" and then select images. How many Snow Trac pictures do you see in what I'll call "deep snow" (at least knee deep)? Answer...precious few.

(My personal opinion is the name Snow Trac was invented by a marketing genius. A more apt name would be "Tundra Cruiser", as they do a much better job in low snow, on flat ground and at lower elevations!)

I'll also mention if you look at ksl.com, you'll run across a seller I call Monster Jeff. Everything Jeff sells is a "monster" something or other, and I think he tends to embellish the condition of the snowcats he's selling. My recommendation would be to take everything he says with a grain of salt... and verify everything.

There is a lot of knowledge and experience on these forums and folks are happy to share it. Don't be hesitant to ask questions, and keep in mind the only dumb question is the one that isn't asked!
 

Taxrulz

New member
Blackfoot, thanks for the welcome and the local Utah advice! As a newbie, I'm quite certain that I can use all the advice provided.


I may end up looking for other snowcats as well!
 
welcome to the forum - I did own a sno-trac at one time - it was equipped with 'climbing grousers' ( or ice grousers ) on it and while extra traction did grip better on ice, they gripped so hard that in hard packed snow, or sod, I had to be VERY careful to keep from driving right out of the tracks - the tracks are easy enough to put back on with practice, but it still takes time and it certainly takes away from the fun of driving it - with the way the steering is set up, trying to turn in deep heavy wet snow is also a problem - power is taken away from one track so the other track spins the machine in the direction you want to turn, but in deep wet snow, especially if you are pulling a groomer or even a trailer with some building supplies, the cat just keeps going in a straight line - you can overcome that problem with a groomer or trailer by installing hydraulics on the groomer or trailer so that the force applied to the towed rig forces the cat to turn and both tracks maintain power and traction ( Ram Steering ) - be prepared to spend a lot of time fixing/repairing, and trying to find original parts, or something that will work in their stead - years after I dumped my sno-trac I went for a J5, with the idea it would make a better all purpose cat - I used that for a few years, then out of frustration again, bought a nice 1344 Tucker - now I can climb hills , turn in heavy wet snow while pulling a groomer, go through 3' of mud and water if needed, snake through tight tree lined corners, and it hasn't made me walk home yet
:)
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
I haven't owned a tucker yet but I do work the pi$$ out of my little snow trac. it may not be the best tool for everything but it does run efficiently and doesn't require a fuel tanker to support it in the back country. at 70 horsepower I have all the power I need from the little aircooled engine. it there is one draw back on mine it would be the lack of a diesel engine. I hate having an exposed ignition system to get wet when operating in crappy weather.
 

redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Good day Tax Rulz, snow cats are addicting, They can make amazing improvements over wheeled vehicles in unimproved roads and remote areas.

I found this forum much the way you did, random searching, My first snow cat was a bombardier *bombi* I traded it towards a tucker. I have since acquired many more styles of snow cat. they are all good. I found the best resource was actual owners. I drove 6.5 hrs *one way* to Iowa to sit in a snow trac as they looked small to me. Became good friends with that forum member as well....

You will find all kinds of ford chevy, Which is better conversation here, take it with a grain of salt. its worth what you pay for it. at the end of the day the amount of area under the tracks is what determines ability. Safety one training has a tremendous amount of information in the specification sheets area,. You pick the manufacture and then click the model.

find a cat you like the look of, can fit in, and go from there.

Watch out for fun statements like the following

welcome to the forum - - power is taken away from one track so the other track spins the machine in the direction you want to turn,
:)

There is not one snow cat manufactured that does this.

all two track snow cats have controlled differentials. in the Aktiv snow tracs case they have a constant velocity variator. If you jack up one side of a snow trac and try to drive ahead, it will drive right off the jack. if you jack up one side of a tucker (left or right) you are not going any where. limited slips and lockers help get them moving but executing a turn while locked is hard just like in a jeep.

None of them Brake steer.

Tucker (sno tracs as they are called in the literature) have open differentials unless ordered with lockers or installed after market.

Over the snow transportation is necessary and preferred in many areas of the snow belt.

snow conditions vary. Performance varies. enjoy the hunt and learning, there is a tremendous amount of knowledge here.
 

MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
Squirel, you better elaborate on this statement?

“There is not one snow cat manufactured that does this.

all two track snow cats have controlled differentials. in the Aktiv snow tracs case they have a constant velocity variator. If you jack up one side of a snow trac and try to drive ahead, it will drive right off the jack. if you jack up one side of a tucker (left or right) you are not going any where. limited slips and lockers help get them moving but executing a turn while locked is hard just like in a jeep.

None of them Brake steer.”

Not all two tracks have controlled differentials, some are Hydro and some are
Clutch or clutch/brake combo

Some do brake steer

Some do drag down the machine when in a turn
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
none of them are the perfect mouse trap and none are idiot proof uncle sam proved that with the bv206. you should not be looking at the best performance, but the best bang for the buck in the conditions you are operating in. I own a Thiokol 2100 and a snow trac the snow trac has paied for its self 10 to 15 times over because it has such a low operating cost. I still want a tucker to graft in a small diesel some day even with taller gears and a diesel I don't think it would ever operate as cheap as a snow trac. they do have have an advantage ride wise with the 4 track pod setup. but more tracks = more maintenance. also anything with tracks will have more maintenance than wheels.
 

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm new to the Forum, although I've been lurking for a bit, and looking to buy a Snow Trac. Originally I wanted a Thiokol Spryte, but have been told that is too big.

I live near Salt Lake City and need to access a cabin without reliable winter access. Our cabin is a Swedish Stuga, so a Swedish Snow Trac would be perfect addition.

We would like to find one is as good as condition as possible. I'll probably be reaching out to a few on the Forum with questions about them.

Thanks in advance,

John

I was In your situation when I bought an off grid cabin last summer. I started off with a Thiokol 603 and it works fine but being a skid steer its a lot of work on a road with 180 degree switch backs plus being a cabover it gets a little warm inside but never let us down. A deal came up for me where I acquired an older Tucker 442 with a nice hauler that I made a trade deal on. The thinking there is it has a steering wheel and is easy to drive. Like in the wife can drive it. something that is impossible with the 603. The type of snow in our cabin area is very heavy wet and sets up hard overnight where on the right day you could make it in a 4x4 with good tires and lockers even though its 8 feet deep . I am finding like others have said there are plenty of machines that would work well for one use but may not be optimal for another.I would be listening to an experienced snowcat operator in your area used to the conditions you are going to be operating in for recommendations. For me the amount of money I budgeted for the cat helped me make the decision and I'm sure it will effect your decision too. Another observation Is if what ever brand you decide on doesn't meet your expectations or situations change they are not that hard to sell if in running condition at a fair priced try another brand.
 
Good day Tax Rulz, snow cats are addicting, They can make amazing improvements over wheeled vehicles in unimproved roads and remote areas.

I found this forum much the way you did, random searching, My first snow cat was a bombardier *bombi* I traded it towards a tucker. I have since acquired many more styles of snow cat. they are all good. I found the best resource was actual owners. I drove 6.5 hrs *one way* to Iowa to sit in a snow trac as they looked small to me. Became good friends with that forum member as well....

You will find all kinds of ford chevy, Which is better conversation here, take it with a grain of salt. its worth what you pay for it. at the end of the day the amount of area under the tracks is what determines ability. Safety one training has a tremendous amount of information in the specification sheets area,. You pick the manufacture and then click the model.

find a cat you like the look of, can fit in, and go from there.

Watch out for fun statements like the following



There is not one snow cat manufactured that does this.

all two track snow cats have controlled differentials. in the Aktiv snow tracs case they have a constant velocity variator. If you jack up one side of a snow trac and try to drive ahead, it will drive right off the jack. if you jack up one side of a tucker (left or right) you are not going any where. limited slips and lockers help get them moving but executing a turn while locked is hard just like in a jeep.

None of them Brake steer.

Tucker (sno tracs as they are called in the literature) have open differentials unless ordered with lockers or installed after market.

Over the snow transportation is necessary and preferred in many areas of the snow belt.

snow conditions vary. Performance varies. enjoy the hunt and learning, there is a tremendous amount of knowledge here.


been there done that my friend - power in a sno-trac is shifted through the differential to one track or the other when you turn the steering wheel and works the same as a differential in a car - when the going gets tough in a corner, a sno-trac will not turn - the powered track will pull you straight ahead if there is enough traction, or sit there and spin and you're not going anywhere if there isn't enough traction - granted I'm talking deep, heavy, wet snow, the kind of snow the ski hill calls 'wet concrete' while pulling a groomer or loaded trailer
 

redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Squirel, you better elaborate on this statement?

Perhaps my ignorance is showing but I entered into this sillyness listening to folks espouse of brake steering. I believed it for quite a while. If removing power from a track is possible in a controlled diff all of mine are broken.

the 4t10 might be able to ( I gave in trying to fully understand that process) but the likelihood of a new enthusiast selecting a two differential machine as a first machine seemed remote( spryte was too big). I studied a well documented rebuild here on the forum don't recall one track not turning in his explanation of how it worked.


my comment is directed at the of general understanding of brake. to stop. the track..... steering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-bB2Kl1tCI
In the link the red output shafts never stop.


hydro cats like skid steers can and do apply power to both sides.can even zero turn by reversing torque to one side or both.

Not all two tracks have controlled differentials, some are Hydro and some are
Clutch or clutch/brake combo, Is a weasel a clutch brake combo?

the three compared were snow trac, spryte, tucker

Some do brake steer. Frandee is true brake steer, who else?

I would never recommend a machine that stops a track to execute a turn in snow, except a frandee, they are cool

Some do drag down the machine when in a turn

Would you consider the torque biasing in a snow trac to be dragging them down in a turn? For that to happen the belt would have to be slipping something fierce. the variator prohibits the differential from differentiating

so here is some more of my crazy spiling out, in my experience Tuckers and snow tracs are the only two that don't tear up my lawn in a turn, the balance of my machine do excellent jobs tearing at the sod as a function of grousers being forced into an arc, not from stopping one and driving the other but from merely changing their speed relative to each other.


I will be more careful sharing blanket statements that exclude minority snow cat manufactures
 

MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
Many of the Russian machines are brake steer
The axtrack is a clutch release and brake steer
The raidtrac is also a clutch release and brake steer

All controlled differentials will consume more hp in a turn that’s why many go to ram steer from the drag for grooming on the smaller hp machines


But you are forgiven professor squirel. But your grade has been adjusted for the year. But no squirels left behind so you will still advance to next forum post...
 
the J5 isn't really a snow cat, more of a tracked all purpose all terrain vehicle - the one I have was purchased new by BC Forestry, came with all the bells and whistles of it's day, and was called a 'Small Tracked Skidder' - it uses brake steering - two levers control a brake to each track - pull on one lever hard enough and it stops one track and the other track can spin the J5 in it`s own length ( if the brakes are working properly )
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
A Snow Trac is hampered with towing, and turning. Any two tracked cat will be better able to tow and turn if they had a drawbar hitch that is free to swing a bit from side to side. My rubber tracked Caterpillar tractors we use farming taught me this. Fixed hitches on these, make the cat turn very hard as they must redirect the load immediately by swinging the hitch. If the hitch were a draw bar hooked to the machine in the middle of the track frame, when you turn the draw bar swings, and the load does very little until the machine has made it's course correction, but after that, the load begins to turn with the machine. If I had a reason to tow more than I do, I would modify the hitch so it could swing while turning.

That said the Snow Trac is more of a people mover, than an object puller IMHO.. They are compact and light weight to. They are not so tall that they can go under tree canopy, something other brands are challenged with, but those tall machines roam area's with conifer trees you never drive under. In my part of the world conifers are some what rare. Oaks, Maples, elms, and Ash are a big part of the trees we regularly go UNDER, that some of those tall machines can not do, or go. I have personally had a Tucker owner climb in my machine because of this. His comments about mine were how fast it is compared to his Tucker, and how much quieter in the cabin my Snow Trac is compared to his machine. I had to smile.... :thumbup:

Each machine type has it's place I figure, and this is why there are all those variations we see in snow cat design.

Enjoy your confusion. If you get a machine and do not like it, most likely you can sell and buy a different type without getting beat up monetarily. Snow Trac's are holding up value wise very well, just in case you worry you might not like them. Utah might be an exception. But I know of plenty of Snow Tracs in Idaho..

Regards, Kirk
 

Taxrulz

New member
All,

Thanks for the really great input. I've decided I should explore my options a little more before making a decision.

Thanks for helping a new member out.
 
A Snow Trac is hampered with towing, and turning. Any two tracked cat will be better able to tow and turn if they had a drawbar hitch that is free to swing a bit from side to side. My rubber tracked Caterpillar tractors we use farming taught me this. Fixed hitches on these, make the cat turn very hard as they must redirect the load immediately by swinging the hitch. If the hitch were a draw bar hooked to the machine in the middle of the track frame, when you turn the draw bar swings, and the load does very little until the machine has made it's course correction, but after that, the load begins to turn with the machine. If I had a reason to tow more than I do, I would modify the hitch so it could swing while turning.

That said the Snow Trac is more of a people mover, than an object puller IMHO.. They are compact and light weight to. They are not so tall that they can go under tree canopy, something other brands are challenged with, but those tall machines roam area's with conifer trees you never drive under. In my part of the world conifers are some what rare. Oaks, Maples, elms, and Ash are a big part of the trees we regularly go UNDER, that some of those tall machines can not do, or go. I have personally had a Tucker owner climb in my machine because of this. His comments about mine were how fast it is compared to his Tucker, and how much quieter in the cabin my Snow Trac is compared to his machine. I had to smile.... :thumbup:

Each machine type has it's place I figure, and this is why there are all those variations we see in snow cat design.

Enjoy your confusion. If you get a machine and do not like it, most likely you can sell and buy a different type without getting beat up monetarily. Snow Trac's are holding up value wise very well, just in case you worry you might not like them. Utah might be an exception. But I know of plenty of Snow Tracs in Idaho..

Regards, Kirk


I did have a lot of recreational fun with the sno-trac - I bought it with the idea of grooming trails, which it failed at in some situations - but when it was easy going, it was fun to watch the ribbon of a glass smooth trail unwind behind the groomer - it was easy to haul because of it's light weight and size - it was an instant hit with the ladies at snowmobile gatherings, everyone wanted to go for a ride - it wasn't something that I would have wandered off into the wilderness with by myself because of reliability - but walking home in the dark after a breakdown while grooming the trail wasn't so bad because I had a groomed trail to walk on - lol - as far as speed, I don't find much of a difference between my Tucker and the sno-trac I had - both hit max about 16 - 18 MPH
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I did have a lot of recreational fun with the sno-trac - I bought it with the idea of grooming trails, which it failed at in some situations - but when it was easy going, it was fun to watch the ribbon of a glass smooth trail unwind behind the groomer - it was easy to haul because of it's light weight and size - it was an instant hit with the ladies at snowmobile gatherings, everyone wanted to go for a ride - it wasn't something that I would have wandered off into the wilderness with by myself because of reliability - but walking home in the dark after a breakdown while grooming the trail wasn't so bad because I had a groomed trail to walk on - lol - as far as speed, I don't find much of a difference between my Tucker and the sno-trac I had - both hit max about 16 - 18 MPH

I have never pulled a groomer behind mine, not what I bought it for. For carrying people is why I have mine.

Break downs are none existent on mine in 400+ hours of operations. Some day maybe however...

I think what my friend really intended when he said how fast the Snow Trac was, is that on trails with challenging maneuvering required, our average speed on trail was higher than his Tucker. Speed is not everything however. A strong Snow Trac can go well beyond the 20MPH barrier with stock gears. Drop in the high speed set that was an option and the top speed goes up to 25+. Add and Eco tech motor as one member here has, and take that up to more like 50 MPH. Don't know about what Tuckers might be capable of.

Regards, Kirk
 

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
.

None of them Brake steer.

Tucker (sno tracs as they are called in the literature) have open differentials unless ordered with lockers or installed after market.

Over the snow transportation is necessary and preferred in many areas of the snow belt.

snow conditions vary. Performance varies. enjoy the hunt and learning, there is a tremendous amount of knowledge here.[/QUOTE]

SQWRL SQWRL SQWRL. all 2 pontoon (Kitten, super kitten and tank) Tuckers are brake steer....
 

redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
well the snow cat brake steer camp went from none ( which was intended as likely to be Purchased, and appropriate for a swedish Stuga) to a pool of russian over the snow cats, the muskeg utility machine, a raid trac, 80 or so kittens, 2 super kittens and one tank. and the Frandee family

with the 4t10 with its power divider as questionable.

any others?

tax rulz, if you are confused, don't be it takes years to get to this point, the snow cat apprenticeship is a difficult indenture. I promise you will enjoy the experience.
 

1boringguy

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Taxrulz,
If you haven't seen the Snow Trac variator as it works this might help give you an understanding of the concept they use. It accomplishes the same thing as an open diff does with brake bands, but certainly much different than hydrostatic drive which can move the tracks totally independent of each other. At a some what greater cost.
 
well the snow cat brake steer camp went from none ( which was intended as likely to be Purchased, and appropriate for a swedish Stuga) to a pool of russian over the snow cats, the muskeg utility machine, a raid trac, 80 or so kittens, 2 super kittens and one tank. and the Frandee family

with the 4t10 with its power divider as questionable.

any others?

tax rulz, if you are confused, don't be it takes years to get to this point, the snow cat apprenticeship is a difficult indenture. I promise you will enjoy the experience.

the snow-trac takes power away from one track, rather than braking one track - that's why under heavy load in wet snow it pulls straight ahead with the powerless track just free wheeling - if it was braked, the cat would tend to spin on the stopped track - same thing might happen on a steep icy hill if you tried to turn without ice cleats on the tracks
 
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