Didn't we point this out a few years ago?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/20/its-final-corn-ethanol-is-of-no-use/

"“Biofuels have direct, fuel‐cycle GHG emissions that are typically 30–90% lower than those for gasoline or diesel fuels. However, since for some biofuels indirect emissions—including from land use change—can lead to greater total emissions than when using petroleum products, policy support needs to be considered on a case by case basis”

In 2007, the global price of corn doubled as a result of an explosion in ethanol production in the U.S. Because corn is the most common animal feed and has many other uses in the food industry, the price of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, corn-based sweeteners and cereals increased as well. World grain reserves dwindled to less than two months, the lowest level in over 30 years.

Yep, I do believe we hit on this subject a few years back.
And just the other day I saw a report that suggested greenhouse gases produced by biofuels were higher than those produced by petroleum based fuels. Forums were down when I found it ...and now I can't find the source but I'll keep looking.

Land use change...

Meaning just what? That the Government should be able to ilde your land for you? or perhaps take it from you?

Bull shit. The land will be used if it is private and it is. This argument is just another used to try and put this topic back out there for those who are gullable enough to believe the land would not get used. Way back to Pemmental's flawed science, that has been debunked time and time again. There are two sides to this argument. If you care to look, there is plenty of info that shows exactly the opposite.

No time for this, I am going out to plant some CORN!

regards, Kirk

Doc said:

Yep, I do believe we hit on this subject a few years back.
And just the other day I saw a report that suggested greenhouse gases produced by biofuels were higher than those produced by petroleum based fuels. Forums were down when I found it ...and now I can't find the source but I'll keep looking.

Click to expand...

Is this the one you're looking for?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ethanol-not-cut-emissions/

Ethanol = Socialist Environmentalist Dream:
Raise Corn Prices - check
Raise Beef Prices - check
Raise Breakfast Cereal Prices - check
Raise the number of people who need the government for food stamp aid - check

OK so they got all their wishes and thought that they would end up with a bigger voting block of "dependent class" citizens/subject that would help keep them in power in Washington forever . . . but

Those pricies that we all wish were lower have more to do with the value of our currancy than ehtanol. They are priced in a global market, with other countries bidding for our food stuffs. Been this way for ever...

Corn is about $4.80/ bu. is that too much? The artical states prices doubled to $8, I'd say we cured the problem with lots more production. The reason they doubled was also because the equity markets tanked and the money moved to commodities. We had no reason for such high prices, except money was running away from Wall Street....

Meat prices are high because of a couple of blizzards killing 150,000+ beef cows, and now we have a pandemic in the pork sector wtih 500,000 dead baby pigs that won't come to market. I suppose this is the corn farmers problem as well??

Ethanol didn't do this either.

Regards, Kirk

Kirk

It all started with the ethanol mandate. We saw the change in the meat we buy as corn was diverted and the left over was fed to the animals. Pork is most noticeable.

Nobody really knows where PEDv came from, it came all of a sudden.

Maybe because of the waste of the ethanol process being fed to them?

And it isn't 500,000 piglets, it's more like a few million now. The last weekly peak was a month ago; the last 4 weeks the numbers have been dropping. An effective method is to feed the infected piglets as feed to the herd, and the anitbodies build up and the next set of piglets ssem to be much more resistant.

You points have some merit, but so do these. Yes, the dolar is debased, but NOT as much as current meat prices are. Like 100% higher than 5 years ago.

Beef prices were going through the roof as soon as corn was diverted, before the droughts, famine and whatever other biggest disaster in life you want to apply as a cause, like none of those things happened before in the history or cattle and pigs???????

The one thing that has not happened before was double the corn price and the resultant change in feed quality.
For us in the meat business, we saw the changes in the muscle and fat structures, and the protein levels dropping. It's the corn or lack of whole corn and use of byproducts.

And it was another fine example of the govt sticking their noses where it should not have been, and the "unintended" consequences that followed.

I agree on all points, waybomb. The problem w/ gov't is after they create unintended consequences they don't want to recognize or deal w/ them. The old "if you ignore it it will eventually go away before the next election".
Mike

Fred about PEDv,

It came form China. Not sure how it got to us.

Yes at times I have a hard time with some of the changes. Like I have always maintained, as it is true, I have no interests in ethanol production, nor do I cater to them with what I grow. Long ago I became committed to food grade grain production, not ethanol.

But as with so many things we don't nessarily like, I have seen the difference ethanol production has had on the towns and counties the plants are located in. Good jobs, and resulting uptick in the local economies are here to see. It has brough the plants that make it to an area that had issues with enough jobs, ect.. And just perhpas it has kept some oil from having to be imported here from abroad. All in the name of "Cleaner Air", as that is it's real purpose as mandated by EPA and Congress. It is still the only enviomentally sound fuel oxygenate, and replacement for some thing much worse MTBE that was added to gasoline....

I have used E10 for far more years than most anyone here, and have found it, except for the first year or so, entirerly satifactory. There is a small decrease in milage. And in the first years there were issues with fuel filters getting clogged up..

I too have read and experianced the change it has made in the meats. But I also know there are those interests that wish to kill it, in the petroleum industry... And they may not be factually honest about how they go about it..

I also know it is contraversial, and will be first to admitt that. But it is here and the infrastructure for it long term has been built. Lots of wasted man power and materials to just nix it. Not to mention jobs.

Regards, Kirk

300 H and H said:

Land use change...

Meaning just what? That the Government should be able to ilde your land for you? or perhaps take it from you?

Bull shit. The land will be used if it is private and it is. This argument is just another used to try and put this topic back out there for those who are gullable enough to believe the land would not get used. Way back to Pemmental's flawed science, that has been debunked time and time again. There are two sides to this argument. If you care to look, there is plenty of info that shows exactly the opposite.

No time for this, I am going out to plant some CORN!

regards, Kirk

Click to expand...

There is only one side of this argument for me. The government is forcing me to buy a product I don't want at a price I don't want to pay all to benefit a few companies and/or people.

Kinda like forcing me to pay for someone elses health care.