• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

ST4 back from the dead

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Hi Guys, great forum, some really useful information for the restoration of my ST4 I have just started.
I am having trouble identifying it as the data plate is missing and there are no key numbers, engine numbers or any other positive id tags - only unique number is gearbox (CA0976010) but I don't think transmission numbers were recorded and it may be a replacement anyway.
The dark green colour is original, and I think it may have started off as a canvas top as it has the tie downs on the body, but no military id anywhere or lifting hooks on side of bonnet - it does have folding lifting hooks on the chassis outriggers but I have not seen these anywhere else so may be home built.
It has big windows and low level wipers, transition brakes and small wheels so I would guess about 66/67 - I have e-mailed Kenth but without positive id there's not much he can do.
If anyone out there has more info, please let me know - I will update post as restoration proceeds.
 

Attachments

  • IMG-20200512-WA0013.jpg
    IMG-20200512-WA0013.jpg
    179.6 KB · Views: 748
  • IMG-20200512-WA0009.jpg
    IMG-20200512-WA0009.jpg
    161.3 KB · Views: 736
  • IMG-20200512-WA0002.jpg
    IMG-20200512-WA0002.jpg
    163.5 KB · Views: 723
  • IMG-20200512-WA0010.jpg
    IMG-20200512-WA0010.jpg
    248.5 KB · Views: 738
  • IMG-20200512-WA0015.jpg
    IMG-20200512-WA0015.jpg
    177.9 KB · Views: 743
  • 20200522_072343(0).jpg
    20200522_072343(0).jpg
    95 KB · Views: 722

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Welcome aboard
There are many folks here that can offer great advice to help...

Bringing the old girl back to life is going to be a fun project indeed.

Enjoy the journey
 

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
it looks like it lived near salt water.

Jim, FYI, all of England is surrounded by Ocean/Sea/saltwater, everything is rusty over there.

welcome to the Forums, and good on you for taking on restoring the old girl, lots of great folks all willing to help, both in Europe and the rest of the world,

honestly, Snow Trac's are truly a world snow cat, and a great machine.
 
Last edited:

nikos

Active member
Puckle.
Welcome to the forum.
In the Island, I think the air and the dust are full of salt

Interesting.
1) The roof rack
2) The brakes. ( the drum is inside close to the engine).
and is not external, inside the Sprocket.
3) The hook, on the square tube for the leaf springs.
4) The three Argo 6X6, and the other ST4 in the corner.

Nikos
 

nikos

Active member
Puckle.

In the fotos I saw that is missing also the right side of the 2 band rubber trac.

Nikos
 

nikos

Active member
As for the dark green colour.
Inside the cabin the colour is red, the panels close to the engine are also in red.
The dark green (Brown green) became from the mix of the two colour ( red and green).

Nikos
 

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Well, the bad news is magnesium crank cases are badly corroded so engine is beyond economical repair - plenty more on ebay though so I'll get a replacement. Also on the bad news front, variator spindle ST7688 is broken and front chain sprocket has been ground down after a bearing collapse and seal spigot is missing - I managed to braze on a collar of steel and turn it down to correct size though so that should be ok. Christer does have spares of ST7688 but I will attempt repair first as they are over £350
 

Attachments

  • 20200523_132233.jpg
    20200523_132233.jpg
    116.5 KB · Views: 597
  • 20200528_100517.jpg
    20200528_100517.jpg
    91.5 KB · Views: 591
  • 20200531_073730.jpg
    20200531_073730.jpg
    128.1 KB · Views: 584

redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I agree on the soft top originality.

I think you have a pretty unique machine, it has many good parts. lower wipers and seat is consistant with a much later machine. the small wheel suspension is consistant with 66-67 but the upgraded front trucks or walking beams is something that came late as well.

It appears you have both braking systems. I would be curious if the rig has the high speed (optional ) sprockets or the standard tractor or normal sprockets.

a lot of times when rigs get combined it is to save them. other times smart people take the best of the different models as put together the desirable bits.....

Nice machine. to my eye it has all the good stuff.
 

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
It has standard 38/12 gearing but your right, it does seem to have a bit of a mix of parts - I guess something 50 odd years old gets altered quite a bit over the years - for example mine does not have diagonal bracing across the back panels and has the fuel tank on the right but I don't think it left the factory that way.
Another thing I've noticed is the reinforcing box section underneath and diagonal angle iron brace on the center outrigger - I've seen several machines with this exactly the same as mine but again I'm not sure if it was a factory mod or perhaps something Alex Maclarty did for the Scottish market?

I've sourced a replacement engine (1600 with new barrels, pistons, heads & big ends) from e-bay and have had the it running with the gearbox and variator on the workshop floor. The repaired ST7688 seems fine (I machined it off the flange, made a solid plug to go inside the spline'd section then welded and brazed them together. I turned the plug down to fit the flange and re-welded that back on, then finish turned everything back true including re-boring the hole to go over the mounting shaft)
The gearbox is jumping out of 4th gear but otherwise seems ok - no debris on magnetic plug and not noisy, so I will strip it down and see if I can just replace 4th gear synchro ring.
 

Attachments

  • 20200523_170029.jpg
    20200523_170029.jpg
    72.3 KB · Views: 568
  • 20200601_104306.jpg
    20200601_104306.jpg
    44.8 KB · Views: 540
  • 20200601_120236.jpg
    20200601_120236.jpg
    65.2 KB · Views: 551
  • 20200601_133056.jpg
    20200601_133056.jpg
    60.6 KB · Views: 550
  • 20200601_142224.jpg
    20200601_142224.jpg
    64.1 KB · Views: 553

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
the cabin with rear windows could be handy.
one modification that has been done on that year is the newer disk brakes added to it.
you may fine pictures in this forum of it.
 

luvthemvws

Active member
On a VW transaxle that jumps out of gear it is seldom the synchronizer at fault. The culprit is typically the operating sleeve that has excessive wear on the back-cut of the inner teeth.
The better parts places that cater to the offroad/VW market can provide the pieces.
Nice project!
I look forward to following your restoration.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
looks like a later model cab with the early model 2 band track and undercarriage it may be one of those Irish machines that were built with left over aktiv parts
 

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Yes, could be a mix of all sorts of parts - the other one for sale at MacTrax was ST4 669 and had small windows and high level wipers but large front wheel - its on e-bay at the moment.
I will strip box down luvthemvws and see whats up but your right, it probably will be the sleeve - struggling to find somewhere that sells that part in uk but will keep looking.
 

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
New brake parts fitted - wheel cylinders, master cylinder, shoes, hoses & pipes and gearbox stripped down for inspection. Unfortunately this had also sat for years with water in it and casing is virtually corroded right through around the drain plug - gear bearing surfaces are also ruined. I bought another transmission of E-bay which was in pieces so I could inspect all the parts and re-built this with the old variator parts. It is a much later transmission with a different main shaft and finer toothed gears - it also has thicker steel selector forks as well.
I'm now building it back up so I can test everything and sort exhaust route etc and will then strip it back down to sort out corroded body parts before starting to paint it - not sure what color yet, green like it is now, blue because I like that color, or red because they do look good in red.
 

Attachments

  • 20200607_175823.jpg
    20200607_175823.jpg
    78.9 KB · Views: 491
  • 20200605_121730.jpg
    20200605_121730.jpg
    104.2 KB · Views: 490
  • 20200607_172344.jpg
    20200607_172344.jpg
    81.6 KB · Views: 486
  • 20200607_172353.jpg
    20200607_172353.jpg
    57 KB · Views: 477
  • 20200607_172403.jpg
    20200607_172403.jpg
    67.6 KB · Views: 470
  • 20200607_175543.jpg
    20200607_175543.jpg
    81.1 KB · Views: 482
  • 20200607_175612.jpg
    20200607_175612.jpg
    125.7 KB · Views: 479
  • 20200607_175710.jpg
    20200607_175710.jpg
    65.5 KB · Views: 471

nikos

Active member
New brake parts fitted - wheel cylinders, master cylinder, shoes, hoses & pipes and gearbox stripped down for inspection. Unfortunately this had also sat for years with water in it and casing is virtually corroded right through around the drain plug - gear bearing surfaces are also ruined. I bought another transmission of E-bay which was in pieces so I could inspect all the parts and re-built this with the old variator parts. It is a much later transmission with a different main shaft and finer toothed gears - it also has thicker steel selector forks as well.
I'm now building it back up so I can test everything and sort exhaust route etc and will then strip it back down to sort out corroded body parts before starting to paint it - not sure what color yet, green like it is now, blue because I like that color, or red because they do look good in red
.

the Fotos
 

Attachments

  • 20200605_121730.jpg
    20200605_121730.jpg
    206.5 KB · Views: 423
  • 20200607_172344.jpg
    20200607_172344.jpg
    162.7 KB · Views: 422
  • 20200607_172353.jpg
    20200607_172353.jpg
    115.7 KB · Views: 421
  • 20200607_172403.jpg
    20200607_172403.jpg
    136.5 KB · Views: 419
  • 20200607_175543.jpg
    20200607_175543.jpg
    167.6 KB · Views: 426
  • 20200607_175612.jpg
    20200607_175612.jpg
    252.3 KB · Views: 410
  • 20200607_175710.jpg
    20200607_175710.jpg
    134.4 KB · Views: 414
  • 20200607_175823.jpg
    20200607_175823.jpg
    164.3 KB · Views: 420

nikos

Active member
Puckle;[B said:
20725385]It has standard 38/12 gearing but your right, it does seem to have a bit of a mix of parts - I guess something 50 odd years old gets altered quite a bit over the years - for example mine does not have diagonal bracing across the back panels and has the fuel tank on the right but I don't think it left the factory that way.
Another thing I've noticed is the reinforcing box section underneath and diagonal angle iron brace on the center outrigger - I've seen several machines with this exactly the same as mine but again I'm not sure if it was a factory mod or perhaps something Alex Maclarty did for the Scottish market?

I've sourced a replacement engine (1600 with new barrels, pistons, heads & big ends) from e-bay and have had the it running with the gearbox and variator on the workshop floor. The repaired ST7688 seems fine (I machined it off the flange, made a solid plug to go inside the spline'd section then welded and brazed them together. I turned the plug down to fit the flange and re-welded that back on, then finish turned everything back true including re-boring the hole to go over the mounting shaft)
The gearbox is jumping out of 4th gear but otherwise seems ok - no debris on magnetic plug and not noisy, so I will strip it down and see if I can just replace 4th gear synchro ring[/B].


The repair of the variator spindle on the lathe (FOTOS)
 

Attachments

  • 20200523_132233.jpg
    20200523_132233.jpg
    233.4 KB · Views: 419
  • 20200523_170029.jpg
    20200523_170029.jpg
    148.2 KB · Views: 402
  • 20200528_100517.jpg
    20200528_100517.jpg
    187.2 KB · Views: 402
  • 20200601_120236.jpg
    20200601_120236.jpg
    130.2 KB · Views: 412
  • 20200601_133056.jpg
    20200601_133056.jpg
    119.1 KB · Views: 408
  • 20200601_142224.jpg
    20200601_142224.jpg
    132.1 KB · Views: 409

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Rebuilding from a piece here and there can certainly be a challenge...

Looks like you are getting a good start on it.

Great fun.

The hard work will all be worth it.....
 

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Ha, yes, quick to get running but loads of work to do yet.
First time I've driven one of these and very impressed with design - very maneuverable and very light on the steering. Best of all it does not rip up the grass (my wife would have banned it from her horse's fields if it did!) - it does not even stir up the gravel drive when doing sharp 90 deg turn into garage, not many tracked vehicles would be that gentle.
 

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Wow, your certainly giving it some round your yard, sounds great as well.

I have completed a few more tasks today, new bonnet frame rails made from galvanized electrical conduit and fitted new starter motor - a Wosp LMS 027, similar to IMI Hi Torque featured elsewhere on the forum, but 2kw motor with offset spindle so an 11 tooth gear can be used - really spins my 1600 up a treat. Its also easier and cheaper to get hold of in Europe than the IMI one.

I have also started to do the exhaust - as I will mostly be using this on off road tracks rather than snow I didn't want it under the chassis where it would get bashed. I've taken it out through the rocker cover inspection hatch and along the top of the frame rail and up the back panel to roof level. There is just enough room for 1 1/2" pipe to dogleg around the track. The flexible piece is easily removable so I can still get good access to rockers.
 

Attachments

  • 20200611_104713.jpg
    20200611_104713.jpg
    90.7 KB · Views: 402
  • 20200612_125038.jpg
    20200612_125038.jpg
    64.4 KB · Views: 409
  • 20200612_125056.jpg
    20200612_125056.jpg
    56.6 KB · Views: 395
  • 20200612_130959.jpg
    20200612_130959.jpg
    48.5 KB · Views: 400
  • 20200612_131011.jpg
    20200612_131011.jpg
    98.5 KB · Views: 399
  • 20200612_165039.jpg
    20200612_165039.jpg
    93.7 KB · Views: 397
  • 20200612_165055.jpg
    20200612_165055.jpg
    86.3 KB · Views: 394
  • 20200612_165112.jpg
    20200612_165112.jpg
    89 KB · Views: 417
  • 20200612_165138.jpg
    20200612_165138.jpg
    107.1 KB · Views: 402
  • 20200612_165209.jpg
    20200612_165209.jpg
    75.4 KB · Views: 394
  • 20200612_165231.jpg
    20200612_165231.jpg
    108.1 KB · Views: 404

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Starting work on the rust!
Most of the roof was salvageable, I've just had to replace some of the 25x25 box section and make a few new panel sections for the corroded bits on the curved sections - a compressed nitrogen cylinder came in handy to form the radius sections over and I made a small brake press to fold the lip sections.
 

Attachments

  • 20200613_171811.jpg
    20200613_171811.jpg
    77.1 KB · Views: 389
  • 20200616_163250.jpg
    20200616_163250.jpg
    100.8 KB · Views: 384
  • 20200617_162602.jpg
    20200617_162602.jpg
    129.5 KB · Views: 379
  • 20200616_163302.jpg
    20200616_163302.jpg
    136.5 KB · Views: 384
  • 20200616_163321.jpg
    20200616_163321.jpg
    107 KB · Views: 383
  • 20200616_163336.jpg
    20200616_163336.jpg
    107.5 KB · Views: 391

Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
By the time I had cut the windscreen and side panels into their separate parts there wasn't much left so I'm having to fabricate new copies of those
 

Attachments

  • 20200613_171752.jpg
    20200613_171752.jpg
    138.8 KB · Views: 374
  • 20200617_155047.jpg
    20200617_155047.jpg
    124.4 KB · Views: 372
  • 20200617_155057.jpg
    20200617_155057.jpg
    108.9 KB · Views: 383

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
All I have to say is this machine is one of the luckiest Snow Trac's on the planet.

Lucky YOU found it! :clap:

Regards, Kirk
 
Top