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What's your take on the NY strike?

PineRidge

Back From the Dead
How do you feel about the NY strike? They say the Union is breaking the law, should they be permitted to do so without intervention?

Does anyone else remember when a past president broke up the Air Traffic Controllers Union because of a strike that crippled the nation?

Think it will happen again, and should it in your opinion?

I'm sitting on the fence here but I'm also damn glad that I don't have to commute in NY right now too. :D

Let the flaming begin........
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Without knowing the particulars or issues. I see boths sides cause I've been on both sides. Granted it's a vital service to NY but what is the unions leverage if they don't have striking rights? I would like to think I would have prepared. It appears the people who work in NY were not ready. It also shows how vulnerable it is to work in NY and rely on mass transit. I'm in management now but at this point in time I have to side with the union! Pressure now has been placed on both sides with fines to the union and public pressure to the politicians of the city of NY. It's not going to last much longer IMO.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Some unions should not be allowed to strike. Police & Fire are two that most people will easily agree upon. But in a highly urban area like Manhattan, it could easily be argued that transit workers provide a critial service that is no less important than the Police & Fire protection. It might be hard for us to understand the absolute need for a mass transit system since most of us live out on properties of 5, 10, 75 acres or more. But in Manhattan it the city grinds to a halt and is effectively the only way most people actually travel. So I'd say that it is within the safety issue that NY has the right to call the strike illegal. Call a transportation strike in a city like Atlanta or San Fransisco and I think I would be hard pressed to say that their mass transit systems are critical to population but in NYC, and especially in Manhattan, I'd suggest it is critical.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I agree Bob, but since there is a union involved and established, what is the unions recourse for negotiations, if they have no striking rights AFTER contract life. That's one of the principle pros of organization. Unions cripple companies all the time with strikes and it's their primary tool in negotiations. If the union has no striking rights then IMO these vital trades should be recategorized to salary positons with terms up front of their limited employment protection. IMO that would take too much effort for vital service management to create a structure for future employment and individual growth that they are not willing to commit to! Soooooooooo

What's to stop them from being forced to go back to work and the city lay down on negotiations? That would be like telling you your not entitled to anymore growth! It wouldn't affect you too much but what about your employees? Their job is VITAL to them!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well let me ask how is it that Police and Fire contracts forbid strikes in many areas so why shouldn't there be a no-strike clause for transit workers in some areas?
Again we are talking about an area where very few people actually own a car, so mass transit is critical to get to the doctor, to buy food, to do anything. That is the reality of NYC, especially Manhatton. So since they do have a no-strike clause, and since they are on strike, then it appears to be an 'illegal' strike. The workers, in this case, should be replaced.

Remember they have a no-strike clause. Remember they voted on that clause and approved it. Now they want to change the rules. The city is within their rights to call it an illegal action. Further, based on safety concerns, the city needs to act quickly to resolve this issue.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
B_Skurka said:
Remember they have a no-strike clause. Remember they voted on that clause and approved it. Now they want to change the rules. The city is within their rights to call it an illegal action. Further, based on safety concerns, the city needs to act quickly to resolve this issue.

If they indeed agreed to a no strike clause, they must not like their jobs very much. Would it behoove the city to get mass transit running with management as they can, hire new employees and begin training them. I sure have to wonder what Union leaders think at a time like this. Do they really think the public will back them if they go on strike when they agreed to a no strike clause?

It does remind me a bit of when Regan busted the Air Traffic Controllers union. I wonder if the same will happen here. If the strike continues I think they will (bust the union). But, that is a very uneducated guess. I have not followed the details of it since it did not impact me in the least.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Like I said, I don't know the issues but I do know that they want new employees to agree to different terms as the established employees. The employees are not the only ones wanting to change the terms of the contract on a lesser benefit. This will be very hard for the union to accept. It would be like a contract inside a contract and unions dispise such attempts.

BTW....that's called a wildcat strike and it happens frequently in business especially if you live in a coal mine region. Replacement would extend the misery on the short term, a situation I think NY is too impatient or reluctant to welcome.

As I said, I think the damage has been done and this will cease soon. Can't wait til Johnday sees this. He'll probably agree with you........:eek:
 

Cityboy

Banned
I'm one of those former union steward/elected-officer now management guys and I just finished a college course on labor laws and labor relations.

This is an illegal strike and the strikers could legally be terminated.

I say fire them. The union I was a member of for 15 years had a "no strike" clause and had we struck, the employer would not have hesitated to terminate us, and rightfully so.

The union is causing serious economic hardship to the people who live and work in NY and they should be held accountable.
 

Archdean

New member
Cityboy said:
I'm one of those former union steward/elected-officer now management guys and I just finished a college course on labor laws and labor relations.

This is an illegal strike and the strikers could legally be terminated.

I say fire them. The union I was a member of for 15 years had a "no strike" clause and had we struck, the employer would not have hesitated to terminate us, and rightfully so.

The union is causing serious economic hardship to the people who live and work in NY and they should be held accountable.


Anyone remember the ATC (air traffic controllers) strike , Reagan fired them, I was Flying then and although that action made it difficult for us Airplane drivers and we were glad he did for the most part as it replaced an "arrogance" that we had longed to live without!!

Dean
 

buy_25

Banned
Cityboy - I agree 100%. I hope they lose since they are asking for what business/corps are doing away with 15+ years ago (growing trend). Time to wake up. They are lucky to have a job.

When our worthless union people had a strike it did not work. All our engineers did there job plus there normal job. Plus they got it done quicker. Oh, the union shop is not longer there! :) 500 people bye bye
 

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
The "NO STRIKE" rule is written into NY Law from what I remember and it has been that way for more years than I can remember. Personally, I think that many of the Unions have long outlived there usefulness. Now, all they do is to push for higher wages and benefits based on years of service, not years of productivity. I recently viewed a program about health care. GM. as a result of the union contracts, pays twice as much for health care for its employees than it does for the raw material, steel, for the cars it produces. It is no wonder that so many business's are in trouble. The Union in NY sees the Transit Authority having a million dollar reserve and they want to grab that money. They want to keep full retirement at age 55 with no cost to the Union members. They don't want to pay for any part of the health car costs either. The Union wants more, more, more, until there is nothing more to gain and the city goes bankrupt as a result. The Union is nothing more than a blood sucking entity that doesn't care about the host until it is dead, and then they will look for another victim to kill. The Transit Authority needs that money for future expenses such as retirement, capital improvements (new busses, trains, etc.). The Unions are never happy until the business is running in the RED and then they cry FOUL when the business lays off 50% of the employees before they go bankrupt. After bankruptcy, they claim it is a result of bad management. Unions never take responsibility for the damage that they do to the economy, but just keep taking this country down the path of economic destruction.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
They just announced that union officials are encouraging workers back to work! Hate to say I told ya so but I told ya so............:D
 
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buy_25

Banned
Big Dog said:
They just announced that union officials are encouraging workers back to work!

LOL....encouraging/ working with the word union....ya right...


Where is a union rep when you need one!!!!
 

Gwill

New member
This seems to be the only place that extortion is imagined to be legal. "Give me whatever I want or else!!!" Every striker has abandoned his job and opened it for anyone else who wants it. That's what the ATC guys found out when they abandoned their jobs. They have a contract that REQUIRES them to show up for work. Too bad they all decided to quit at the same time. I hope there are enough bodies within the unemployed to take their places.
 

TINGUY

New member
Junkman said:
The "NO STRIKE" rule is written into NY Law from what I remember and it has been that way for more years than I can remember. Personally, I think that many of the Unions have long outlived there usefulness. Now, all they do is to push for higher wages and benefits based on years of service, not years of productivity. I recently viewed a program about health care. GM. as a result of the union contracts, pays twice as much for health care for its employees than it does for the raw material, steel, for the cars it produces. It is no wonder that so many business's are in trouble. The Union in NY sees the Transit Authority having a million dollar reserve and they want to grab that money. They want to keep full retirement at age 55 with no cost to the Union members. They don't want to pay for any part of the health car costs either. The Union wants more, more, more, until there is nothing more to gain and the city goes bankrupt as a result. The Union is nothing more than a blood sucking entity that doesn't care about the host until it is dead, and then they will look for another victim to kill. The Transit Authority needs that money for future expenses such as retirement, capital improvements (new busses, trains, etc.). The Unions are never happy until the business is running in the RED and then they cry FOUL when the business lays off 50% of the employees before they go bankrupt. After bankruptcy, they claim it is a result of bad management. Unions never take responsibility for the damage that they do to the economy, but just keep taking this country down the path of economic destruction.

You know what you say is absolutely true! It is Ironic though as 25-50 years ago those exact derogatory remarks were being made against the Corporations by the Union members and it was just as true then.

I guess the lessons of history are quickly forgotten when greed gets in the way!
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Gwill, I agree with the extortion issue when it comes to government jobs. N In my county the entire government (union) workforce is up in arms about a possible insurance increase. Seems that they are currently paying $1 per year to buy their insurance, they have a $0.00 office visit co-payment. The county actually proposed making them pay for 10% of their insurance and switch to a $20 office visit co-payment. Now most private insurance is closer to a 20%/$50 office visit, so the government workers are still getting very cheap insurance under the proposal, but they have their panties in a bunch over the proposal. Seems they think they are getting screwed and they want the rest of the citizens to pay more taxes.
 

Kubota King

New member
Junkman said:
The "NO STRIKE" rule is written into NY Law from what I remember and it has been that way for more years than I can remember. Personally, I think that many of the Unions have long outlived there usefulness. Now, all they do is to push for higher wages and benefits based on years of service, not years of productivity. I recently viewed a program about health care. GM. as a result of the union contracts, pays twice as much for health care for its employees than it does for the raw material, steel, for the cars it produces. It is no wonder that so many business's are in trouble. The Union in NY sees the Transit Authority having a million dollar reserve and they want to grab that money. They want to keep full retirement at age 55 with no cost to the Union members. They don't want to pay for any part of the health car costs either. The Union wants more, more, more, until there is nothing more to gain and the city goes bankrupt as a result. The Union is nothing more than a blood sucking entity that doesn't care about the host until it is dead, and then they will look for another victim to kill. The Transit Authority needs that money for future expenses such as retirement, capital improvements (new busses, trains, etc.). The Unions are never happy until the business is running in the RED and then they cry FOUL when the business lays off 50% of the employees before they go bankrupt. After bankruptcy, they claim it is a result of bad management. Unions never take responsibility for the damage that they do to the economy, but just keep taking this country down the path of economic destruction.

:applause::a1:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
buy_25 said:
LOL....encouraging/ working with the word union....ya right...


Where is a union rep when you need one!!!!

Right here!!

I haven't been keeping up with the strike in NYC, even though I probably should.
If in fact, this is a wildcat/illegal strike, you guys are right. The Union screwed up, and will most likely pay accordingly.
But I see this gone from NY to Unions in general. I'd like to ask everyone, and expect a completely honest answer, if it wasn't for Unions helping to create the middleclass back in the early 20th century, would most of you be enjoying the life you lead today? Many uppermiddle class types think they're members of the arrogant elites on the lines of Bessemer, Rockefeller, and others. Guess what, that group would have you groveling in the filth if they could. They're no different than a third world dictator. Just look at the conditions most of the world lives in. Thank God I live in a country like I do.
Let me share a theory/conspiracy or whatever with you guys. Unions, for the most part are needed badly. The problem nowadays is appearing to be the "I want mine at your expense" logic, that has permeated the rank and file. You guys wouldn't beleive how many times on a daily basis I see this.
A guy comes into my office with a real or percieved problem, not speaking, but actually threatening you, bashing you, and damn near incoherent. Once you can make out what his problem is, you break out the contract, policies, practices, laws, and standing orders, and even the Union Constitution. God grant you serenity if the fool is proven wrong. Thats rarely good enough for the person like that.
Anyway, the Union is only as good as its members. Now, relate that to the problem that each and everyone of us bitches about. Todays, society!!
Selfcenteredness, egotistical morons, and just plain unhappy, evil people, that as long as they get yours, screw you.
Where I'm a Committeeman, better than half of our Union membership is in their early 30's, late 20's. I suspect that's pretty much the norm in a lot of industry today. My company didn't hire new blood for a good 15 years in the rank and file. A generation gap? OH YEAH!! We have very little cohesion in my Union anymore, it not only scares me, but breaks my heart as well. These new "members", would sell out us old guys in a heartbeat. What they don't care to see or beleive, is that my company has its eyes set on creating a tiered society if you will. They have many times stated that the plan is to create an entry level at much less the wages and benefits we now have. The new guys, you guessed it, are all for it. There is even talk among them that without a Union bogging them down, that they then could make their own deals and benefit packages.
I sure am glad I'll be gone within 18 months.
Although the conditions in NYC may be appalling, I beleive people should look at the "bigger" picture, and not just their own little 1/4 acre. They might find a view that'll scare the dog crap out of them, and I hope if they do, it does.:soapbox::whip:

Please forgive the disconnected thoughts if you think they are. I get quite worked up at times when I hear blanket statements about how Unions cause the gamut of evils in our country. Maybe more should look at the underhanded lying, thievery, and lack of morals of "OUR" socalled elected leaders, and their counterparts in our Industrial sector.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
John, someone here, I forget who, was very wise in pointing out that there are a couple different types of unions. I think it is fair to say that many of the municipal unions are problems they demand what cannot be gotten in the private sector and then strike for tax increases. As for some of the trade unions, like electricians, I think those unions promote good work practices, safety, etc. Then there are unions like the auto workers who are choking companies like Delphi, GM and Ford.

So to your point(s). I think some unions are useful and some are pitiful wastes of humans. I think the labor movement that spawed unions did a lot of good for a lot of people and for this nation as a whole. Really when discussing unions, we almost need to look at the situation and the effects.
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Bob; Very well said!! I can't help but agree. I'm not too happy with the UAW either. Unions and Industry should be working together. Any Union that runs the hand that feeds them into the dirt, really should look and see more than than the end their nose.:tiphat:
 

HarryG

New member
They (the union as well as workers) will most likely be fined. The Governor of NY just publically stated they will be penalized for this strike. I am a unionized employee of the State of NY and we are all under the Taylor Law which prohibits us from striking.
They might cut a deal and lower the fines a bit but they will have to ante up something.
I personally believe the reason it ended is there was a lot of talk of firing all of them like Reagan did to the AIr Traffic Controllers in 81. This was a bad move on the unions part. Many powerful people are thinking "payback" now.
 

buy_25

Banned
So the union want, want,want. When there jobs are all outsouced to india, boo hoo. For the past 12 years at my job, the union protects people that do jack $$%^$. You want to get ahead in your job, if you have a unoin, good luck. Unless someone dies, no way. they are lucky to even have a job!

When I was hourly I said no way to the unoins ad I refused to pay there dues. With all the whinning and bitching they are only one more step way from no job; keep it up guys! I have seen it many times.

Get rid of the dead weight and maybe 50% will have a job in 2 years. Unions where good when outsouring was not here. Now they will die, big time.
 

PineRidge

Back From the Dead
Well I wanted to see a few opinions and not poision the thread before I posted my personal feelings on the NY Transit strike but Junk has already said it all. I agree with his sediments 100%

Well said Junkman, you the man! :applause:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mike that is a classic sign! I suggest it has a deeper/hidden meaning. Perhaps the meaning is that the union members need to be teminated and the underachievers need to go back to school freeing the transit system to hire workers who are smart enough to do their jobs.

Or perhaps it means . . . the onion shood be busted so dat da stuppid guys git a life and da smart werkers git to werk to make tings bettr.

UNION BUS DRIVERS UNTIE! :yum:
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
PineRidge said:
Well I wanted to see a few opinions and not poision the thread before I posted my personal feelings on the NY Transit strike but Junk has already said it all. I agree with his sediments 100%

Well said Junkman, you the man! :applause:


Yeah,

I got to agree, Junk pretty well summond it up. My opinion, release them all and hire the many people without a job right now and would be happy with any job that would just put some food on the table right now. The City would have long time employees that appreciate having a job.


murph


PS: I am having a hard time making the statement that I agreed with the Junk???:pat:
 

DaRBy

New member
I`m not qualified to comment on unions and politics . My personnal opinion is that the strickers ( because of the timeing and hurt they inflicted on th public) ,, WELL there just no better than the thugs of 9/11 . Sorry , but liveing and GREED is two differant things
 

DAP

New member
Having lived in manhattan (and I ain't talking Kansas) for 21.3 years, I will tell you this ... #(8$)99!!#(8 MTA!

They don't know what they don't know and they are constantly ripping the NY Joe a new asshole.
:2gunsfiri
 
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