Do you keep your guns handy?

Or are they locked up in a safe?

I just posted in a thread (John's Possom) about having a couple guns out to take care of varmint issues.

Then I got to thinking about the other guns I have out and readily available and counted a total of 9. By caliber and rifle vs. pistol vs. shotgun, they're all strategically placed and have proper ammo. They're in my office, truck, shop, RTV, bedroom...

Now, when I say "readily available", that's for me. For the kids, it's not as easy but they know where a couple are. They also know that they are absolutely forbidden to touch them and that rule is not to be broken. I've never had a problem.

So, do you keep them out and handy or locked up in a safe?

Yup, got 2 guns handy at all times, plus 2 spare loaded mags for each. My Sig 239, in black stainless, and .40 S&W is my favorite. The other, my Walther PPKS, in .380, and stainless also, is the smallest gun I'd even come close to considering for any kind of defense. Plus it's very concealable. That one stays in my desk in my den. The Sig is upstairs next to the bed, and very easy to get to. Both are fully loaded, and decocked. All you do is squeeze, and away you go. Whenever I'm on the road, the Sig stays with me, either holstered, or in the door pocket, where I can get to it.

I've no kids at home anymore, and with Una the malamute, I'm not real concerned about anyone snooping around the house. Both Jan and I have general carry permits. And both of us have had instruction from Law Enforcement types. I keep more current on popping caps than Jan, but she's not bad either!!

Mine are kept locked in a small locker, which is locked inside a full size locker. My keys are locked in a lock box as well (initial key is well hidden, but it would be near impossible to find all keys to get weapons). Rifle is just in main locker, but the mags are in the smaller locked box. (It also has a lock on it)
I have always thought people should teach children about guns. It only takes one moment of curiosity to change your world. I've seen too many people on the wrong end of a gun. Nothing worse than a parent whose child used their gun to end their life. It isn't a thing of whether or not they know better, sometimes they know better, but they are feeling very down in the dumps. Young people think the "easy" way out is the only way sometimes. It's glamorized and they think, "Boy will they all miss me." I've read many notes relaying thoughts like that. Not anything I would wish on anyone. Some images you just can't get rid of.

in the cabinet, loaded! One beside me at my desk. If you come in uninvited, walking or doing some stupid S$%&, you aint goin out the way you came in.

Gees, you got me thinking about having to do an inventory. Not that I have that many out and hidden, but how many I have in my safes. I don't know off hand. It's more than 100 but less than 200. I have 3 large safes completely full. When I say "full", I mean full. I doubt that I could stick even one more small frame pistol in any of them.

Anyway, I do have a number stashed about. Three of the ones stashed have Lasermax internal laser sights as well as the integrated spot light on the rail under the barrel. After taking a combat course, I'm really big on the Lasermax for quick sight acqusition without having to bring the pistol up and sight it by eye. Besides, the fear factor of having a laser painted on your chest does come into play. Being painted with a bright red laser and then being blinded by a super bright spot light should generally be enough to not have to fire a round; at least according to security professionals and military special forces trainers. Besides, I'll readily admit that I'd be a bit slow to pull the trigger in my house unless I had the perp illuminated clearly as to know it was not a family member or some friend of the kids sneaking about (my house is extremely busy with my 5 kids constantly entertaining their friends).

That also doesn't mention that most people know that I have 16 security cameras always on and the each view is recorded on a DVR. Of the 16 cameras, several are night vision. Oh yeah, there's also Dargo on patrol each night. He is now fully trained and pretty darn good. Just to see if he would, I gave him the attack command and pointed at a large box. He did, and I felt pretty stupid telling him to stand down when the box was destroyed.

So, I think I wouldn't likely have anyone even get into the house and make me have to resort to lethal force. I suppose that is my plan anyway. Now, if someone was to send a child to break into my house, Dargo wouldn't even begin to stop them. He is strickly forbidden to even play rough with a kid.

I've always had at least one dog, and I think they make a heck of a deterrent even if they aren't attack trained. At least that's my theory, because never in my entire 65 years of living in city and country has anyone succeeded in getting past them. I'm sure many people have tried, because there must be some reason you guys keep all that firepower around and handy.

One thing I'm curious about. Let's say you don't have a dog, and I get inside your house or office, or walk up to your car when you're stopped in traffic. Let's further say that I'm not stupid; I anticipate that you have a weapon hidden somewhere handy -- so I already have a gun in my hand, safety off and ready to shoot. I'm the aggressor, so I obviously know where you are and have it pointed in your direction. I also know that what I'm doing is wrong, so I'm on pins and needles, alert to any move you make and ready to pull the trigger rather than get shot, myself.

Under those circumstances, how many of you can put your hands on your weapon, get it off safe, get it aimed, and can shoot me -- before I shoot you?

Now, considering the circumstances a little further, if you DO go for your weapon, are you more or less likely to get shot by me than if you did NOT go for a weapon?

I asked these kinds of questions on other forums, and got labeled an anti-gun nut. I've thought about it, and I don't think that's true. I have always been interested in guns (although never interested enough to spend any significant amount of money on them), and have always enjoyed target shooting. I've spent time with the best -- many years ago, one of my co-workers was on the national Army Reserve pistol team, went to a range every morning and practiced, and I often went with him. I sat with him while he did reloads, and I helped him build a black powder cannon that shot beercans loaded with cement. As I mentioned in the plinking thread, I've owned a few plinking rifles. So, I hardly qaulify as a left-wing, bleeding heart, anti-gun nut.

I do, however, think that anyone who actually believes they can get to their gun and defend themselves before their actions invite the bad guy to shoot them is living in a dream world. Remember, guns work at long distances, and if I want to hurt you, I can likely shoot you before you even know I'm there.

I have several friends who are/were cops, including one who was the chief of police for a medium sized-city, who agree with me. Their advice is that if you have a gun for defense, you're likely to try to use it -- and that will likely get you shot.

I don't want to hear about Quick Draw McGraw, if I have my gun in my hand when I come through your door, I'm gonna beat you.

When I grow up I want to have half as many guns as Dargo. He's my hero of the moment.

Dargo, If I'm ever in Southern Indiana can I come over and play? I'll bring my VISA card.

; )

We have a few guns lying around that are up high. The oldest kid is only two so we have a few years (1 or 2) before we have to get more crafty about stashing them.

OkeeDon said:

I've always had at least one dog, and I think they make a heck of a deterrent even if they aren't attack trained.

I have several friends who are/were cops. . . Their advice is that if you have a gun for defense, you're likely to try to use it -- and that will likely get you shot.

I don't want to hear about Quick Draw McGraw, if I have my gun in my hand when I come through your door, I'm gonna beat you.

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Don, several thoughts. First, I totally agree with you that a dog is a better deterant than a gun because a dog is a noisemaker, it is on alert before the bad guy gets in, etc. The homeowner's gun may or may not ever come into play because it may or may not exist, or be handy. But the dog is right there and barking.

Regarding your friends, the statistics say they are wrong. If you are not in a home of drug and/or alcohol abusers, or are prone to domestic violence, the statistcs are very clearly in favor of a gun owner never being shot by his/her own weapon, and in fact clearly in favor of gun owners being protected by their weapon even if it goes unfired.

Regarding the sneak attack were you walk up to my car and point a gun at me, yup you will win, I couldn't get mine that fast. No contest.

Regarding coming into my house with your gun drawn and assuming you could beat me to my gun, that is a risky and uncertain conclusion you have come to. No I am not Quick Draw McGraw. But I'd likely hear you before you get through the door. The dogs definately would alert me. You pounding on my door or breaking the lock would certainly give me cause for concern. And it is likely that unless you could figure out how to silently enter my home, then I would probably get to a gun AND a phone before you got to me. And I have a 'safe room' with a solid door, reinforced frame, deadbolt locks, phone, water, first aid . . . and oh yea I also have a clear fire shoot through wall panel that would put you into my line of fire without you having a clue where I was hiding. My choice is to retreat and protect my family, but I will put up a hell of a fight before you get me because I would seriously doubt you'd be able to stroll into my home, gun drawn, without some advance warning.

OkeeDon said:

Under those circumstances, how many of you can put your hands on your weapon, get it off safe, get it aimed, and can shoot me -- before I shoot you?

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Sure, if you are coming into the house with the sole purpose of killing someone then you have the advantage. Most bad guys are after something (sex/money). The weapon they carry is typically for intimidation and not for execution.

I however will not hesitate to grab my large bore handgun (safety? - what's that?) and start blasting the sh*t out of any stranger that is in my house (on my way to my speed loaders). Haven't had to test the theory but I'm pretty sure I won't hesitate unless there are other circumstances.

ddrane2115 said:

in the cabinet, loaded! One beside me at my desk. If you come in uninvited, walking or doing some stupid S$%&, you aint goin out the way you came in.

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Danny....... you object to killing animals, but you are willing to take a humans life?????

I would have to say Bob and PBinWA are correct.
1. Statistics show the best two things for prevention are dogs and lights.
However, if someone is entering your house, it is a very likely that they are NOT there looking to shoot you. They are there to steel something. I would guess if they were looking to shoot you, they would do it away from the house. Like Bob said, unless you leave the doors unlocked, you're going to make some noise getting in. (even through unlocked windows)
Almost every time we get a gun off someone breaking into a house, it is in their bag or pocket. (They are most generally junk too) Most problems come into play when they accidentally bump into someone. I would want a weapon near by in that scenario.
I had my son with me yesterday and we were in the neighboring town. There was a fatal shooting in that same area about 1 hour later. Another time we were about 100 yards from an armed robbery. (While it was happening) CVS store. We were going there to get a drink, but I changed my mind and we went the other way. I think San Fran is making a big mistake banning guns. (Besides the fact it isn't legal) Bad guys can / will get them. Not knowing who has them keeps them in check somewhat. I am an advocate for training though.
I should also add that I would not drag my son into a fight with or without guns. I was just saying that sometimes you don't have a choice and it could come down to you or them. Guess which I choose?

if you come into my house with intent (break in) yep. If an animal is taking a life, it dies. If the animal is threatening human life, it dies. If the intruder realizes he is a goner and gives up, he lives, but he better be on the floor and spread eagle, and his hands better be in view.

Hope this clears it up.

It's interesting the subject of killing human or animal came up. The most dangerous animal on earth just happens to be human as well. Suffice to call it "manimal". I used to deer hunt alot, also spent time during Viet Nam boarding those little good/bad guy boats. Never had a fear of a deer attacking me, but the latter, oh yeah!

Both circumstances brought death as quikly as possible. The problem is, the 4 legged animals you can pretty much predict what they're going to do. The 2 legged? You should be so lucky.

I've no problem with shooting/hunting at all. For some reason just lost interest in it, but don't care one way or the other, if someone else enjoys it. Just shoot to kill, one shot/one kill, is the way I look at it. Out of the dozen or so deer I've capped, only one took a double tap. I don't like anything to suffer.

Manimal is a different story. They can plot, they maim, they torture, and are very devious on how they take you out. The best you can do is be prepared, not to the point of paranoia, just be aware of your surroundings.

Kinda got off on a tangent here, don't remember where I was trying to go now!!!

Don, would you be happy to know that I've never even drawn any firearm inside my house? On the rare occasion I hear something (or think I hear something) moving about inside my house, I am so pissed that I go stalking about in the dark bare handed. I'm confident that I can disable someone in my house rather effectively in hand to hand combat; even if they are armed. Being an insomniac, I often walk about my house in the dark (as to not wake anyone). I know my house very well and can go about in near total darkness rather well. Someone who doesn't belong there most likely would not be able to do that. If I have to attack, it will be a very violent and quick attack. Everyone in the house will know what is going on. If you are in my house, even with a gun drawn, odds are very strong that you will never see me or be able to get a shot off at me before you are viciously attacked.

I was home from college one weekend at my parents house and someone did break in to their house and, I did attack. I was able to verify that the person did not belong there by the sense of smell. The intruder smelled rather strongly of cigarette smoke. Nobody in my family smokes. Besides, the body profile did not match anyone I knew. Anyway, he was rendered unconcious and beaten rather brutally (hey, it's an adrenalin thing). It turned out to be an ex-boyfriend of my sister's who was coming to pay her a nasty visit. I'm glad I didn't shoot him, but I am not sorry I beat him rather severely. Oh yeah, he now thanks me for not killing him. He holds no grudge and is thankful he was not killed for committing a B&E.

In my car, it would be unlikely that you would be able to approach with a gun drawn without meeting a drawn gun in response. I happened to make a wrong turn into West Memphis, TN with my wife one time. To compound matters, I made an additional wrong turn trying to get turned around. I ended up at the housing projects there. At a stop light I had several people surround my car. The guy who approached my window was met with a laser from my pistol painted on his chest. His hand was inside his waistband grabbing what I assume was some sort of weapon. His friends quickly abandoned him and suddenly he wanted to be talkative. After complying, and raising his hands slowly, I was more than willing to allow him his wish to turn and run. I also gunned the car and fled myself.

What would have happened to my wife and me in that instance if I was not armed? I honestly do not know and am glad that I don't. I really doubt that the group of guys were going to offer to clean my windshield. Anyway, no shots were fired and nobody was hurt because of the fact I was armed.

If someone is intent on killing, it would be hard to stop them. I would have to agree that most time the criminal is only intent on either stealing or raping or something of the sort rather than strictly killing. Usually crimes committed are crimes of opportunity. If there is a great chance of being killed or being in a gun fight, the criminal most likely will choose an easier target. San Francisco not only violated our constitution, but they made a very bad choice. Now that Chicago, Washington D.C., and London, England have enacted similar laws, their murder rates have skyrocketed. Criminals know that it is very unlikely that their targets will be armed. Most everyone now represents an opportunity for the criminals since nobody is likely to be armed. Most all crimes have gone up in these cities. Why in the hell does San Fran want their violent crime and murder rates to go up?! I'll tell you why, bleeding heart radical liberals who ignore facts in order to push their adgenda is why. Crime rates in areas that have outlawed guns are a factual statistic that can be measured. They know that there will be more violent crimes and murders once the guns are removed (unconstitutionally) from their citizens, but they don't care because the move fits their ideals, and that is more important to them.

Sorry, but read our constitution and the amendments and it is obvious that these liberal cities have far overstepped their authority. Our founding fathers specifically did not want people to do what San Fran has now done.

OK, I'm going to be accused of singling out a single fact and ignoring the rest. I'll take that chance, because I don't know Dargo, and can't prove or disprove his anecdotes. However, I can look up the Chicago murder rate. Do a Google search for "Chicago Muder Rate" and make your own decision. There are some articles that have it going up; those were all in 2003, 2002 or earlier. The articles from 2004 and 2005 say, "Chicago murder rate plummets". None of the articles mentioned homeowners and their guns as a contributory factor either way.

My point is, much of what is said and reported about this subject is macho bullcrap, without facts to back it up. If you can't feel safe without your gun, so be it. I've never had any sort of weapon in the house or car for self defense, and I've had exactly zero successful attacks.

On the other hand, I do regularly sit in my front yard, waving an orange scarf up and down, to keep away the elephants. My neighbors all appreciate it, because none of them have seen any elephants in our neighborhood since I started.

Don, Chicago has had a ban for a couple of decades?

New York City and all the 5 boroughs also have had a gun ban for as long as I can remember.

OkeeDon said:

One thing I'm curious about. Let's say you don't have a dog, and I get inside your house or office, or walk up to your car when you're stopped in traffic. Let's further say that I'm not stupid; I anticipate that you have a weapon hidden somewhere handy -- so I already have a gun in my hand, safety off and ready to shoot. I'm the aggressor, so I obviously know where you are and have it pointed in your direction. I also know that what I'm doing is wrong, so I'm on pins and needles, alert to any move you make and ready to pull the trigger rather than get shot, myself.

Under those circumstances, how many of you can put your hands on your weapon, get it off safe, get it aimed, and can shoot me -- before I shoot you?

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Why not use a rifle?

Has anyone here ever shot someone or shot at someone in civilian life? When you make that split second decission to fire, it can last a lifetime.

Junkman said:

Has anyone here ever shot someone or shot at someone in civilian life? When you make that split second decission to fire, it can last a lifetime.

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No, I have not. However, four different times I've used "macho bullcrap" and have disabled an attacker or intruder. The last is public record here in town. Although I had a firearm in my car, never used it when I assisted a couple at a stop light in our town from an idiot suffering from road rage. I did not deem it necessary to even show my firearm, therefore, it was not part of the police report. The idiot lived to be able to attack another couple in the future when he thinks he has been cut off in traffic.

Although my firearm was handy, "macho bullcrap" was all that was needed to effectively stop that guy. If I'm ever surrounded by a gang again in my car, the "bullcrap" will stay at bay and a firearm will appear again. Since laws that remove firearms from law abiding citizens are unconstitutional, (read 2nd Amendment) I'll take my chances and continue to be safe and risk a potential battle in court rather than an appointment with the undertaker. I personally prefer to choose what force is required in any given circumstance to protect myself and my family. I never was a weenie and had to resort to having other people protect me or fight my fights. I'm too old to change now. Besides, which do you honestly think would deter a criminal more; the potential to be arrested or the potential to be shot??

Junkman said:

Has anyone here ever shot someone or shot at someone in civilian life? When you make that split second decission to fire, it can last a lifetime.

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No. I've been fortunate not to have had to make a decision like that. But then again if faced with it, and if I made the wrong decision, my widow and fatherless child will have a lifetime to think about what I didn't do.


And back to the macho bullcrap and the Chicago crime rate and the fact that it plummeted, I think it is safe to say that most people who commit murder and violent crimes in Chicago with guns are not following the law, while homeowners in Chicago are forbidden from owning and keeping a handgun within the city limits so they could not use one to protect their home/family. Consequently I doubt many people would read about guns reducing crime in a city where they have been effectively banned since sometime in the 1970's(?)!

Certainly I would hope to never need a gun. But I have on cocked and locked in my desk drawer at work and I have them in my home. My goal would still be to retreat rather than confront.

I think it is clear when Maine (an extremely liberal State. Even our Republican Senators are accused of voting Democrat party lines) has a State law authorizing you to shoot an intruder upon entry.