Diesel exhaust fluid.

So is this the biggest scam to ever come down the pike or what?
I know this stuff has been around for awhile now.
When I got out of trucking, kalifornia was just beginning their quest to require big trucks to implement this in order to enter their precious environment.

As I'm tripping over the empty containers of this stuff (and the boxes the containers come in) all over fuel islands, I have to wonder.
There is little to no discussion of these things anywhere on the internet.
Maybe the topic is just being googlescrubbed.

But I have to wonder how much energy and pollution is created just making this uric acid product.
Then there's the energy and pollution created to make the plastic jug, and the cardboard to house the jug in.
How much energy was used just to truck the products needed to the plant to make the card board and jug?

Then there's the energy to fill and package it.
On top of that, there's the fuel spent trucking this stuff to the outlets to sell it.
And even more, there's the plastic jugs and boxes going into the landfills.
I find it hard to believe, but I read online that the jugs weren't even recyclable.

So all in all, are the diesel exhaust people really helping anything, or is it just another ruse for the lining of pockets?
I also read this stuff costs more than fuel itself.

Oh, and one last thing, from what I read, if you have a newer diesel vehicle that requires this stuff, and you let it run out, your vehicle is designed to punish you by limiting its speed limit to 5 MPH.
How does this all pan out when someone not paying attention the the warnings is on the freeway doing 75 mph, and all of a sudden their car all but stops out in the hammer lane?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around all of this.
Especially since I was looking at the far outside prospect of purchasing a newer diesel truck.

Maybe I just need to be enlightened.

You're just not woke or green, LOL!!
Mike

mla2ofus said:

You're just not woke or green, LOL!!
Mike

Click to expand...

I guess I'll just stay asleep and white.

DEF is pure bullsh1t and I want no part of it....

As an owner of many diesel engines, I hope I can retire from Ag with out ever having to own any engine that requires it, and if I do it will be an immediate owner delete...

Like you I have tried to find out who and why we have this crap. From what I can tell, these emissions system are actually from Europe, as they had them and the laws before we did. This migrated across the pond from the European socialist scum bags wishing to control economies by controlling the engine of commerce, the diesel engine. Even off road stuff is not exempt from this bullshi1t. (can you tell it upsets the crap out of me?)

The gains for clean air are not that impressive if you ask me either. Look up Tier 4 emissions and find out how much this costs us, and I doubt if you would sign up for it.... At -25 degree's it freezes solid and will leave you stranded on the side of the road. I have personally seen well over 500 trucks stalled between Ames Ia. and the Twin Cities on I35N in such temperatures. 3 lane traffic if you wanted to pass because of all the trucks stalled on the shoulder..

Look for engines that you can delete this abortion of an idea from before you buy. Plan on keeping it for a very long time, as on resale you might have to reinstall the garbage.

I say it is time to disregard the rules, and delete any and all systems from your ownership. The cost are FAR TO GREAT for any gains the environment might see IMHO...

Regards, Kirk

Currently I have 3 diesels and 1 of them requires Blue DEF (urea)

About a gallon ever 15,000 miles.

It is kind of a pain in the ass.

On the other hand, of the 25+ diesel engine I've owned in my lifetime, this one is probably one of the most trouble free engines (now at 104,000 miles) I've ever owned. But when that warning light goes off you have 1500 miles before the engine shuts down. Not a great thing to happen when you pull out of town while on a driving trip. And that has happened to me twice. Fortunately the gallon refill jugs are now available at every auto parts chain store, some big-box stores, and even many large supermarkets. It was not like that when I got this vehicle (model year 2014) but its easy enough to find now.

Melensdad said:

On the other hand, of the 25+ diesel engine I've owned in my lifetime, this one is probably one of the most trouble free engines (now at 104,000 miles) I've ever owned.

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I know lots of owners who have never had a less reliable, and expensive to operate diesels they have ever owned... Pumps for DEF go out, or the DEF they bought has crystalized and won't even come out of the jug. I have heard so many horror stories, that I want no part of this solution to a non existing problem...

Automotive engines are not what I am talking about however. For comparison your car probably averaged 45 mph, and with that mileage, you have about 2,300 hours of use. This is about 1/5th of what an industrial diesel engine is expected to live while in service. I have a Mack truck engine with nearly 25,000 hours on it, and still runs strong, and uses no oil. I do not think this new crap will ever get good enough to make it that far...

Obviously your getting along fine with yours. Just know other folks are having real issues with not only the added additional costs, but with repair bills, and the issues of an engine down when it is at the heart of their business at critical times like harvest...

Regards, Kirk

I would think there must be a relatively easy bypass tricking the DEF system into thinking the tank is full.
I wouldn't put my life on it, but...
I used to relocate (mostly used) semi tractors all over the country.
Time after time I came across Detroit diesels that wouldn't start.
I got fairly good at locating and bypassing the sensors that were preventing the engine from starting.
In some trucks, I was able to trick the computers that were set up to give high rpms in every gear but 10th into believing that they were in a lower gear when they were in fact in 10th.

But those were also the days one could easily get to the pumps and put in a stinger.

Here's a few pics from back in the day.
I can't begin to tell you how many of those Schneider trucks we moved.
I'm not the guy in that pic.

The other one was my crew.
Me, my wife, my daughter, and a hired hand we called Wayneman.
It was a shot we took that was going to be mailed to the coup at Hope Arkansas for shutting us down, and costing me a bunch of $$$.

the bypass isn't so easy as it senses what is being dosed to. your right about it being bs and a money grab, first def is to help control oxides of nitrogen which diesels make a lot of because of heat and pressure. I remember an o zone scare the ozone is essentialy oxides of nitrogen in the upper atmosphere. the tree huggers would have you believe it will never get up there but somehow the heaver than air gas Freon gets up there so I believe the smog will get there to. I here the folks in commyfornia are worried about vegetation along the road dieing off now as a result of un burned def. its an expensive bandaid that doesn't do much there are technoligys out there to get around it Isuzu and international have proven it, but because the government says this Is the system you have to have you have to have it. there are ways to reprogram the ecm to ignore def sensors but because that puts those who produce programmers to get around this in violation of federal law those sources are drying up.

Snowtrac Nome said:

first def is to help control oxides of nitrogen which diesels make a lot of because of heat and pressure.

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I don't have a diesel that requires it but isn't DEF effectively Urea?
Urea IS nitrogen.

Every time they come up with something to make an engine "Better" or try to reinvent the wheel, I cringe.
We've gone from taking a simple engine that only needed air, fuel, and a spark to run, and made it as complicated as a space shuttle.
There's little that I can do with my vehicles when they get sick.
With all the crap that's under a hood these days, you can't even get to the spark plugs without damn near pulling the engine.

My brain is stuck in the past.

I knew things were headed in the wrong direction when they came up with feeding the exhaust back into an engine.
Not even a caveman would think it was a good idea to breathe in his own farts in order to make the world smell better.
But, I digress.

My first truck was a 1961 Apache 10 (Wish I still had it).
I could open the hood, and see absolutely everything in there.
I could even climb into the engine compartment and sit with the engine while I changed plugs.
Hell, there was almost enough room for an extra engine.

Who would have ever thought that a day would come when you'd have to buy one of the major components of piss and have to put it in your vehicle in order for it to run?

Bannedjoe said:

Every time they come up with something to make an engine "Better" or try to reinvent the wheel, I cringe.
We've gone from taking a simple engine that only needed air, fuel, and a spark to run, and made it as complicated as a space shuttle.
There's little that I can do with my vehicles when they get sick.
With all the crap that's under a hood these days, you can't even get to the spark plugs without damn near pulling the engine.

My brain is stuck in the past.

I knew things were headed in the wrong direction when they came up with feeding the exhaust back into an engine.
Not even a caveman would think it was a good idea to breathe in his own farts in order to make the world smell better.
But, I digress.

My first truck was a 1961 Apache 10 (Wish I still had it).
I could open the hood, and see absolutely everything in there.
I could even climb into the engine compartment and sit with the engine while I changed plugs.
Hell, there was almost enough room for an extra engine.

Who would have ever thought that a day would come when you'd have to buy one of the major components of piss and have to put it in your vehicle in order for it to run?

Click to expand...

Fluid Ha, Out here in commiefornia I have a 1997 international 4700 CARB lets me drive it 1000 miles a year not a typo 1000 miles a year or I have to put a brand new engine in it and they make me send a picture of the odometer every January. In 2121 they are going to block the registration of every commercial diesel truck made before 2000. So your choice is sell it out of state or junk it. This legislation will most likely be coming to the rest of the country during the next democrat administration. Marty