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Here is an orange one

Aaron Tucker

Active member
Buyer beware the guy Jeff selling the snowcat is a scumbag bag. I've had dealings with him the past. It's a good looking cat tho.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Nice but sure seems a bit overpriced


I'm no fan of "Monster Jeff", as I refer to him, and I haven't seen the machine in person, but depending on the quality of the modifications and overall condition I don't think it's overpriced.

In the Tucker world, if you want to carry more than four people you need a xx43 style machine. Note this is listed as a "1642C" and that's what the data plate says. That means when it left the factory it was a two door machine. If you look closely at the photos you'll see the cab was modified. Note in the photo of the left side, a fuel filler neck behind the front door. If you look at the other photos of the outside, there is no side mounted fuel tank. That would imply the fuel tank is inside the cab. That takes up interior space, which is always at a premium. If you look closely at the photos you can see the roof is in two pieces and likewise there is a vertical seam just behind the fuel filler neck/middle side window. Looking at the back the rear door area and step is not like a factory three door machine.

Most two door Tuckers have the rear of the cab ending behind the front seats. Some have a slightly extended cab with a small window behind the front seats and a little more room inside the cab. Those are often referred to as /A models, such as 1642A. So we know the cab was modified. The question is was it done by Bubba and Billy Bob, or by someone who knew what they were doing?

The factory three door machines use a bulkhead right behind the front seats. It effectively divides the cab in two. This machine has the fuel tank right behind the front seats and looking at the photos, it looks like all they did was remove the rear window glass, so that similarly divides the cab in two, although there's even less room in the back. One of the modifications we did to the 1643 project was remove the bulkhead and install an inside roll bar that hugs the perimeter skin. It really opens up the interior and doesn't make rear passengers fell like second class citizens.

I like long track machines, and this one also has damper wheels, instead of the steel track supporting framework with hyfax. That modification/design change results in less track noise. The Allison automatic is a very nice option, really something of a game changer. It can shift-on-the-fly rather than coming to a complete stop to change gears. The added power of a 440 (vs the usual 318 or 360) is another nice feature.

In true "Monster Jeff" fashion he describes the machine as having an "eight-way blade". Huh? If you look at the winch area and start counting hydraulic hoses you'll end up with six; meaning it's a six way blade: up-down, angle left-right and tilt left up - right down, and vice versa. The in-cab valve looks identical as well. Pull the lever back and the blade raises, push forward it lowers. Pull the lever to the left and it angles left, push to the right side and it angles right. It you twist the T-handle you actuate the tilt function.

I've owned two Tuckers with factory six way blades and both been 9'6" wide. Basically a center section eight feet wide, with two bolt-on 9" wing sections. Take them off and you're eight feet wide, a legal width.

The project 1643 came with a front mounted Warn winch. Every single Tucker of this general vintage with a factory installed winch I've seen has used the same model Warn winch, the venerable 8274. Leave it to Jeff to call it the "big winch"; implying there was another one offered of lower capacity.

"Seating for ten people" is pure Bull Shrimp, unless eight of them are less than say six years old. And "only 4,500 hours" is similarly deceptive. For a Tucker of this vintage I'd call those high hours. My 1644 "Thundercat" came with roughly 800, and the 1643 project I mentioned was right at 500. Quick public math shows 4,500 as over eight times higher. "Only 4,500"...yeah, right.

One thing I'm puzzled by is Tucker went to a one-piece tilting hood setup in 1982-83 or so. This has the earlier two piece clam shell style hood. You can note the triangular cut outs at the lower rear corners of both sides of the hood. Those would have been for dual exhaust stacks.

So once you take away the usual "Monster Jeff" embellishments you have a 1985 1600 series machine with long tracks (with damper wheels), a 440 CID V-8/Allison AT-545 combination, factory 8,000 lb Warn winch and factory six-way blade. Those are all desirable options.

IF (big if) the cab modifications were well done, and if it is in good mechanical shape I think the price is okay.

For reference, my first Tucker was a 1980 1543 with factory six way blade. It had a 318 and four speed transmission, just over 800 hours and was originally owned by the US Forest Service. It came with the damper wheel conversion already done. I sold it in 2010 (IIRC) for $27K. And that was after repacking all the wheel bearings and installing new seals, as well as complete exterior repaint and new interior carpet. I also did some minor repairs, a tune-up, etc. Dan Dressler, a Tucker factory salesman (and a very good guy) once told me the blade was probably a $10,000 option and it probably added $3K to the price of a used machine.
 

rodre

Member
Is the issue with Jeff that he embellishes his product, kinda like a used car salesman? Or even worse; a used Snowcat salesman lol? Or is it something worse, like the sawdust in the diff type of stuff I have read on these forums?

From reading the above post I am left with basically "the cat has some great options" and "it might be worth the asking price" but basically needs to be seen. In my mind that is up to the buyer to do and decide, as is with anything you buy, however, I am also getting a "buyer be warned" kind of vibe. In my experiences with Internet or even print advertisements is that they are rarely accurate and always embellished, I believe this called "marketing" thee days lol, so I take every ad I read with a couple grains of salt. I have reasons to need to know so feel free to PM me if you don't wish to respond here. Thanks.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Is the issue with Jeff that he embellishes his product, kinda like a used car salesman? Or even worse; a used Snowcat salesman lol? Or is it something worse, like the sawdust in the diff type of stuff I have read on these forums?

From reading the above post I am left with basically "the cat has some great options" and "it might be worth the asking price" but basically needs to be seen. In my mind that is up to the buyer to do and decide, as is with anything you buy, however, I am also getting a "buyer be warned" kind of vibe. In my experiences with Internet or even print advertisements is that they are rarely accurate and always embellished, I believe this called "marketing" thee days lol, so I take every ad I read with a couple grains of salt. I have reasons to need to know so feel free to PM me if you don't wish to respond here. Thanks.

Rodre,

I'll confess right up front I'm naive and idealistic. "If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters". That's from retired Senator Alan Simpson of Wyoming.

What is wrong with simply telling the truth? Serious question.

Describe what your selling fairly and accurately. Take photos that represent the item, including dents, rust, etc. Don't frame the photo so the tear in the driver's seat is just outside the field of view. The written description should accurately portray the condition, and if you list manufacturer's specifications, they should be accurate. To do anything less (in my opinion) shows an intent to deceive.

In addition to the Tucker in this thread, he has three Haaglunds BV 206 snowcats for sale. In "Jeff speak": "SUPER CLEAN CUSTOM MONSTER TURBO DIESEL HAAGLUNDS AMPHIBIOUS SNOWCAT". Here's a link to one:
https://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/44433166

Note in his description he says "...AND GO ON THE STREET 40 MPH". Later on in the listing he has cut and pasted a lot of specifications, likely from a factory brochure. There it says "Max. speed on roads 55 KM/H (34 MPH)"

Here's a link to Safety One's website, which also features a lot of Haaglunds information:
https://www.safetyoneinc.com/about-safetyone/resources/hagglunds-bv206-2/

Note there it says "Maximum speed 34 MPH (gas)/ 31 MPH (diesel)"

So Jeff is advertising 40 MPH, when it's really 31.

I "get it" that honest people occasionally make mistakes. But look at the "intent", and look at the frequency. In my opinion it shows someone who is intentionally misrepresenting what he's selling. I call that dishonest; plain and simple.

He has 10 snowcats listed on ksl.com. Nine of them are "SUPER CLEAN". Look at some of the photos, the Tucker for example. Look at the photo of the roof mounted stereo and the upholstery missing from the roof. Or the photo of the inside rear roof area where the upholstery is sagging down. "Super clean"? Really?

Here's another forum thread from last summer about a Tucker listed for sale here, and now available from "Monster Jeff". Here's the original forum thread:
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=76863&highlight=monster+jeff

And the current listing:
https://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/45269055

Note in the listing he says: "6 PASSENGER CREWCAB" and "ONLY WEIGHS 12,000 Lbs, AND IS 80" WIDE".

Really? Six passengers? 80 " wide?

Here's a link to a Tucker factory brochure:
http://www.sno-cat.com/docs/2000-5-Passenger-Flyer.pdf

Note that Tucker calls it a five passenger machine, and they list the width as 8'8".

Do you see a trend here? Numerous intentional misrepresentations...

There was a forum member here who went by the screen name Utah Wilson. He had an Activ Trackmaster and decided to sell it, so he listed it on the forum. He went out of his way to accurately describe the condition, and he priced it fairly. I went and looked at it, and what impressed me most was Kevin (Utah Wilson). He really wanted to make certain I knew everything that needed to be done. He would intentionally point out flaws. Very few people are are open and honest as he is, but that's the kind of person I like to deal with.

Here's a link to that thread:
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=74369&highlight=utah+wilson
 

rodre

Member
Thanks for taking the time to type the detailed explanation Blackfoot.

Yes, I agree that people should be honest as it reflects integrity. I myself have been accused of being "too honest" and I used to wonder what this even means. After many years I came to realize that this meant that I was taken advantage of, missed the boat a number of times, others taking credit for my work, and many many times ended up selling something for less then I could have gotten for it if I had embellished the description or touched up the one scratch etc etc etc to get the extra dollar. At the end of the day I value my integrity and have never had anyone come back to me and say "you ripped me off" or "I drove down the block and it broke down". This is important to me. I also value my time so when I sell something I take detailed pictures, especially of any trouble areas, and tell the perspective buyers everything I know about the unit, good or bad, simply so I don't need to waste my time showing the item over and over again. I also let the first person who contacted me in regards to the item make a decision on the unit before going to the next in line.

I don't believe in much but I do believe in Karma and need to be able to face myself in the mirror. I believe this is called a conscience. I realize not everyone in this world is like this, especially on the Internet, so personally when I read ads I seriously doubt 90% of the description. This way when I go to see the item it is hopefully not as bad as I expected lol. Sadly, usually they are worse. I had to learn this the hard way after years of looking for boats and RVs on the Internet, which ALWAYS look better in pictures for some reason (once I was selling a boat and no matter how I took the pictures it kept looking much better then it really was so I wrote "DOES NOT REALLY LOOK THIS GOOD as the first line in the description) and was left with the short end of the stick on more then one occasion. I am hoping snowcats are not as photogenic as boats or RVs lol.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I 100% agree with you when you say "Why not just tell the truth?" but sadly this no longer seems to be the world we live in. I attribute very much of that to the Internet, as it seems to be a bit of a double edged sword to humanity (I better not even get started on this).

In any case I am in the process of making a purchase from Jeff. Prior to committing to the purchase I read all of his ads and looked at all the pictures, even of the units I was not interested about, in detail to identify what kind of business/seller he was before contacting him to work out the purchase, as I would not be able to see the unit in person. This was all the diligence I could really do. I came to the conclusion that his ads probably focused on the positive and that he was probably a bit of a salesman but no more than your average sales guy. I spoke with him on the phone and via text messages and he seemed easy going and upfront to me. I guess when I get the unit I will know what I have. If it is 60+% as advertised I will be happy. If it is not I will not have no one to blame but myself for buying something site unseen. Obviously I wish it would not have to be like this but I realize this is the world we live in and my life will go on and I will just kick myself and end up looking forward to laughing about it down the road... Que sera sera...

If nothing else Blackfoot I am happy to know that there is other idealistic and simplistic people like myself out there. Even if we are a dying breed it has bumped my faith in humanity up a notch, so thank-you for that.

:beer::thankyou2
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Thanks for taking the time to type the detailed explanation Blackfoot.

Yes, I agree that people should be honest as it reflects integrity. I myself have been accused of being "too honest" and I used to wonder what this even means. After many years I came to realize that this meant that I was taken advantage of, missed the boat a number of times, others taking credit for my work, and many many times ended up selling something for less then I could have gotten for it if I had embellished the description or touched up the one scratch etc etc etc to get the extra dollar. At the end of the day I value my integrity and have never had anyone come back to me and say "you ripped me off" or "I drove down the block and it broke down". This is important to me. I also value my time so when I sell something I take detailed pictures, especially of any trouble areas, and tell the perspective buyers everything I know about the unit, good or bad, simply so I don't need to waste my time showing the item over and over again. I also let the first person who contacted me in regards to the item make a decision on the unit before going to the next in line.

I don't believe in much but I do believe in Karma and need to be able to face myself in the mirror. I believe this is called a conscience. I realize not everyone in this world is like this, especially on the Internet, so personally when I read ads I seriously doubt 90% of the description. This way when I go to see the item it is hopefully not as bad as I expected lol. Sadly, usually they are worse. I had to learn this the hard way after years of looking for boats and RVs on the Internet, which ALWAYS look better in pictures for some reason (once I was selling a boat and no matter how I took the pictures it kept looking much better then it really was so I wrote "DOES NOT REALLY LOOK THIS GOOD as the first line in the description) and was left with the short end of the stick on more then one occasion. I am hoping snowcats are not as photogenic as boats or RVs lol.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I 100% agree with you when you say "Why not just tell the truth?" but sadly this no longer seems to be the world we live in. I attribute very much of that to the Internet, as it seems to be a bit of a double edged sword to humanity (I better not even get started on this).

In any case I am in the process of making a purchase from Jeff. Prior to committing to the purchase I read all of his ads and looked at all the pictures, even of the units I was not interested about, in detail to identify what kind of business/seller he was before contacting him to work out the purchase, as I would not be able to see the unit in person. This was all the diligence I could really do. I came to the conclusion that his ads probably focused on the positive and that he was probably a bit of a salesman but no more than your average sales guy. I spoke with him on the phone and via text messages and he seemed easy going and upfront to me. I guess when I get the unit I will know what I have. If it is 60+% as advertised I will be happy. If it is not I will not have no one to blame but myself for buying something site unseen. Obviously I wish it would not have to be like this but I realize this is the world we live in and my life will go on and I will just kick myself and end up looking forward to laughing about it down the road... Que sera sera...

If nothing else Blackfoot I am happy to know that there is other idealistic and simplistic people like myself out there. Even if we are a dying breed it has bumped my faith in humanity up a notch, so thank-you for that.

:beer::thankyou2

"Too Honest". My ex-wife said that about me as well. Hint: If your wife says "Honey, how do I look?" she is NOT looking for an honest answer. If you reply "Sweetheart, you look fantastic. You are a vision of timeless beauty" you probably won't get in trouble...unless she senses sarcasm, and in that case; you're really in trouble.

I just spotted this on ksl.com and thought of you. I don't know how far down the path you are with your possible purchase, but this one may be worthy of your attention. (I have no affiliation with the seller.)

https://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/50630956
 

rodre

Member
Thanks for the heads up on the white imp on KSL Blackfoot, would seriously considered it as it is fairly priced and comes with a trailer. Not to mention the seller has the same name as me and it was made the year I was born - probably would have been the perfect unit lol. I am too far down the windy path with my purchase, I should be picking it up next week. Still torn between driving down or getting it shipped. Kinda want to see it before it leaves and shipping is expensive but not looking forward to a long winter drive so not sure what to do.
 

Thebartman

Active member
I personally drove from Montana to "buy" the White Imp 9 months ago.
It looks much better in pictures. All the rubber was real old. The trailer had nonfunctional wiring, and would have needed tires and wheel bearing service just to leave town. This has been for sale a long time.
He was at 10k. I offered 8k. I left.
I ended up getting my present Imp out of Waconda Washington. Same price range, much better.
 

rodre

Member
So I picked up the Imp and trailer and I figured I owed it to my forum brethren to report back on my findings and experiences.

I would say the Imp was about 80-85% as described. Starting to go through it I have not found any major issues or discrepancies. I can say that snowcats are probably as photogenic as boats are - in that they appear to be in better condition in photos. I might have paid a little on the higher side for it but I would say probably not by much. The tracks are in perfect condition with very little wear and even have paint on about 80% of each grouser. The spare tire is foam filled but has a rip in it - this did not show up in the photos despite them being good resolution. I didn't ask about its condition either so... The rest of the tires and wheels are in great condition. The engine seems to purr pretty good and doesn't seem to burn oil from what I can tell from the exhaust. I will compression test it later once I find the factory specs. I can't tell about the steering/brake band condition, I didn't drive it much and have no basis to compare it to but Jeff appeared to be able to make it steer just fine. When I was driving I was having issues trying to make it steer but I was also not really moving fast, just in the bottom end of 1/1. I wouldn't mind knowing how to test this.

Dealing with Jeff himself was fine, he was friendly and helpful. He threw in a brand new battery when we determined the one in the Imp was either shot or dead from sitting and a few other odds and ends. He helped me fix up the trailer with wood risers when we realized the center channel was too wide to fit between the Imps tracks, as the trailer was probably from a Spryte. In hindsight I found him to be pretty creative with his answers to some of my questions on the fly. Like I asked him if the "Blower", meaning the stock heater in the Imp, worked and he said yes. When I got home I found that the blower works fine but the heater core was disconnected and I can only assume it is because it leaked. I guess he answered truthfully on that lol.

The only issue I can say I have from the experience is that the side beams on the trailer are rusted out and need to be replaced. The trailer was painted and my inspection of the wiring and the top side it looked really good. I have recently had a cast removed from my leg, just the week before, so getting under the trailer to look at it was going to be a little painful and difficult and I was in a hurry to get out of there as it looked like it was going to storm. I never asked him about the condition of the trailer, and because he told me ahead of time that the tires were weather checked and probably need to be replaced I just assumed the rest of the trailer was probably in good condition - I guess I shouldn't have done that. The only thing I can say is that I am probably lucky I loaded an Imp and not a Spryte on the trailer because the Imp isn't wide enough to put much weight on the bad beams and doesn't weigh near as much as the Sprtye in general. If it did the trailer may have snapped in half on the way back. In any case I take part of the blame for this as I didn't ask the questions and didn't do a full inspection of the trailer when I had the chance.

As long as there are no similar problems with the Imp I would probably deal with Jeff again, but I would not buy anything site unseen - which probably goes to be said when buying anything from anybody. I also got the impression that he basically flips things that he acquires and doesn't really know much about their condition or do any repairs etc before relisting them, so it would be up to the buyer to know what to look for.
 

Aaron Tucker

Active member
I'm really glad you didn't loose your shorts on the deal .did you happen to see that tucker with the blade while you where there ?the one listed in this original post ?
 

rodre

Member
Unfortunately I did not, I was in a super hurry to get out of there before the storm set in, which it did. I did see the green Hagglunds from the outside and it appeared to be in great shape.
 
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