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  #1  
Old 04-03-2008, 02:25 PM
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Default Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

So my carry permit expires and I need to get a new one. Indiana's concealed carry permits have historically had to be renewed every 4 years. So I go to the county sheriff's office today so I can get my permit renewed. I find out that Indiana now, for a slight up-charge, offers a LIFETIME concealed carry permit.

I applied for the new Lifetime permit, but I have to wonder if it is really a good idea to offer lifetime permits? Yes, I want one. But I'm to old to change my ways so it is doubtful that I will fall off the deep end and go on too many rampages.

Anyone, even people who have never had a carry permit, even new gun owners, can apply for the lifetime permit. We are a "SHALL ISSUE" state.

So what do you think? Should these be allowed? Should they be restricted to people who have had prior 4 year permits and proven they are good citizens? Thoughts???

OH BY THE WAY, the Brady gang runs a website called "The Gun Guys" and it is presented as 'common sense pro-gun website' but really is just a front for their propaganda. Here is their editorial on Indiana's "LIFETIME" permit:
Indiana Passes Lifetime Handgun License Law, Promises Gun Owners Are “Good People”

Finally, a new law in Indiana has passed granting anyone who passes a one time exam a lifetime handgun permit.

State Police Superintendent Paul Whitesell announced details of House Enrolled Act 1176 at a news conference Wednesday, saying the law will streamline the process to get a permit for law-abiding gun owners. His agency oversees the issuance of permits.

Residents do not need a permit to buy handguns or other firearms but must have one to carry or transport a pistol. State Police officials said Indiana has about 288,000 active handgun permits. Permits are good for four years, but now gun owners have the option of obtaining a lifetime permit instead.

State Sen. Johnny Nugent, R-Lawrenceburg, and State Rep. Troy A. Woodruff, R-Vincennes, who carried the bill in their respective chambers, appeared with Whitesell to tout the new law.
"This is a day we are very proud of," said Woodruff. "We are looking out for the law-abiding citizens of Indiana. If they follow the law, they shouldn't have to go through the hassle of renewing a permit every four years."
Aww, poor baby. Because renewing a permit to carry a deadly weapon is a total "hassle."

Apparently in Indiana, people don't ever change. When you buy a handgun permit, you're the exact same person at 21 that you are at 25, and at 29, and at 33, and at 37. You have the same wants, the same needs, the same outlook on life, the same views on morality. Apparently when you buy a handgun permit there, you aren't just signing up to carry a gun, you're signing up to be the exact same person for the rest of your life.

That's strange, because people in other states change all the time. They get sick, they have problems. They lose and gain jobs, they go through relationships that might leave them angry or even violent. It's weird that that would never happen in Indiana, where a lifetime handgun permit means you get a handgun for a lifetime. Or, at least, until you shoot someone.

Hamm of the Brady Campaign, which advocates for stricter gun-control laws, said he has concerns about the ability of law enforcement to track and react to crimes that people commit after they obtain lifetime permits. And, he argued, the "hassle" of having to renew permits is overstated.

"Responsible gun owners understand that some gun owners ought to be checked out every four years," he said.
State Police Capt. Doug Shelton, acting commander of the agency's records section, said State Police will continue to check on gun permit holders whenever they are notified of an arrest, conviction or other action that could limit or preclude a person's right to have a permit. He said that is already the practice for those who hold four-year permits.

The NRA's Varner added that people who make the effort to obtain a permit are not the ones to worry about.
"They're the ones you should trust," she said. "They've gone through the hoops and background checks. They're the good people."
Right. Because "the good people" never, ever, ever do bad things, especially with firearms. But the dumbest thing about this whole law? The gun lobby is bragging it will make the state more money. Yeah, until everyone has a firearms license.

If all applicants sought lifetime licenses, rather than four-year licenses, revenue would increase to about $4 million for the first four years, said Whitesell. However, he said, not all gun owners are expected to seek the lifetime licenses.

Officials said they could not predict the projected revenue after the first four years because the majority of current owners could be licensed for life, and that would cut income from renewals.

"Cut income," you say? So, in the long term, the state will actually lose money. Nice. Why did this bill get passed again?

As ideas about gun laws go, this is pretty much one of the dumbest we've ever heard. The only people who could possibly think this was a good idea are irresponsible gun owners who just plain don't care, and would rather save themselves a trip to the police station every four years than help curb gun violence. They're, of course, not the majority (and they're probably not even the majority of gun owners), but once again the gun lobby is sacrificing the safety of the many for the needs of the very, very few.
http://www.gunguys.com/?p=1262
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

According to this Brady bunch, if good people go bad for some reason, they will stop carrying their weapons if they don't have a permit. Makes sense to me--not! I figured the renewal process was just for the revenue and maybe a way to provide work for more bureaucrats.
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

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Originally Posted by ghautz View Post
According to this Brady bunch, if good people go bad for some reason, they will stop carrying their weapons if they don't have a permit. Makes sense to me--not! I figured the renewal process was just for the revenue and maybe a way to provide work for more bureaucrats.
Yup, they make some really bizarre claims about guns, but they pretend to be gun owners themselves and they pretend to be pro-gun. I love this little ditty they wrote at the end of their editorial.
The only people who could possibly think this was a good idea are irresponsible gun owners who just plain don't care, and would rather save themselves a trip to the police station every four years than help curb gun violence.
Can someone explain to me how I am an irresponsible gun owner because I applied for the lifetime permit? Further they claim that I am saving a trip to the police station and that is somehow 'curbing gun violence' if I do that every 4 years. Huh? How is me driving across the county to the sheriff's office to get a renewal for my permit magically curbing violence? Or, to take their logic back to them, how am I contributing to gun violence if I get a lifetime permit?
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghautz View Post
I figured the renewal process was just for the revenue and maybe a way to provide work for more bureaucrats.
I agree with this. I don't remember what Redneck's is, I haven't heard him talking about renewing it in a long time. A lot of stuff makes no sense except providing a job. I have to renew my professional licence every 2 years and I think it's a crock, but only because I can renew it by taking a test online with the same questions from the previous years. My oldest son is a Barber also and he took it for me last time
It costs me about $80 every two years.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

In Alabama our permits are good for one year and in my county they are $20 dollars. What does the lifetime permit cost up there?

You have to figure at one AlanEJackson might have been normal, look at him now. I hope he isn't a CCW.

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Old 04-03-2008, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

I don't see a negative. People can change for the worse but any action that would result in the suspension or revocation of a four year permit would theoretically have the same effect on a life time license. With current modern day databases and the interlocal and interstate communications they allow, I don't think the loss of the sheriff's and state police's 4 year reviews, offers much threat to the public safety. Especially since criminals break the law as a matter of course and would probably access and carry guns regardless of any ruling of eligibility by the state.

I guess from a consumer point of view you would have more invested if a nationwide ban on CCW was ever initiated. However the money would be the least of your losses in that case.

Given that licensing is probably an infringement of our 2A rights, I guess less frequent licensing procedures are a lesser infringement.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

Great idea until you do something and deserve to have it revoked .........

Armstrong County in PA is $26 every 5 years. One trip every 5 years I can handle, just a 8 mile drive.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka View Post
Can someone explain to me how I am an irresponsible gun owner because I applied for the lifetime permit? Further they claim that I am saving a trip to the police station and that is somehow 'curbing gun violence' if I do that every 4 years. Huh? How is me driving across the county to the sheriff's office to get a renewal for my permit magically curbing violence? Or, to take their logic back to them, how am I contributing to gun violence if I get a lifetime permit?
Again, you are trying to use logic to analyze and propose counter-arguments to the musings of a group of far-left moonbats. By default this is futile. They do not use logic and fact in analyzing either the current state of any situation or any possible future direction relative to improving said state.

You would feel much better if you simply went and purchased yourself a nice new gun and a couple thousand rounds of barrel fodder.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

Bob, you are just a bad, crazed, nutcase with a gun........dont you know.


Ask them if the blueballed guy that shot Brady had his permit.............or got his gun legally, and ask them why someone around him at the time could not use their legal gun to kill the bastard?

I know I am a loose nut too, but hey I like it
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Glink View Post
You would feel much better if you simply went and purchased yourself a nice new gun. . .
Thanks for the advice, I just did that! Pictures tomorrow!
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

Here is some more 'unbiased' commentary from the supposed pro-gun The Gun Guys website regarding the laws of my home state.
Indiana Gets D for Suggesting Lifetime CCW Permits

First the Wyoming gun lobby wants to leave their concealed carry permits at home, and now the gun lobby in Indiana is pushing for a lifetime concealed carry permit!
It’s a good thing that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence released its 2005 Gun Violence Prevention Report Cards before the Indiana legislators passed a wrong-headed bill granting Hoosiers lifetime gun permits. The ludicrous move would have guaranteed state officials a failing grade.

As it is, Brady gives Indiana a D.

For the last nine years the Brady Campaign has released the annual report grading state efforts to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and protect children from gun violence. To our dismay, Gov. Mitch Daniels has already said he will sign the legislation authorizing lifetime gun permits. When he signs it, Indiana will be the first state in the union with such permits.

First isn’t always best.

“I think we’re looking at summer school for Indiana,” said Peter Hamm, spokesman for the Brady Campaign. “I don’t mean to make light of it. … But it’s definitely a step in the wrong direction.

“Having people fill out a form every couple of years is not a great hardship. You have to renew your driver’s license every couple of years depending on which state you live in. Why, in God’s name, would you give someone a lifetime license and just hope that something doesn’t slip through the cracks.”

What exactly are they thinking? That people don't ever change? Under this law if you're able to carry at 18, you're still able to carry at 35. Now, if you're under 18, you may not think that's a big deal, but if you're 35 or over, you know how much has changed since you were eighteen. Concealed carry permits every few years are not a big deal, and there's just no reason at all to take away that checkpoint process. It just makes things less safe for everyone, including the CCW holder.
The reason Indiana received a low grade for preventing gun violence even before the lifetime license bill passed was Indiana’s lack of a training requirement for gun owners and the lack of background checks for private gun sales or gun shows.

The unfortunate consequence is that Indiana will be granting lifetime licenses to people who may not know how to safely own and operate a firearm. The law will also make it easier for gun owners who commit crimes to retain possession of firearms because there will not be a regular check on permit holders.

State legislators could have better served Hoosiers – gun owners included – by focusing on safety and training legislation rather than reducing oversight.
Well, they could better serve everyone by getting rid of concealed weapons altogether (since guns aren't safe no matter who's holding them), but the editorial is right: lifetime CCW permits is a direct step in the wrong direction. We already have too many guns out there as it is-- passing legislation that will make it easier to carry guns is a terrible idea. A "D" grade, indeed.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

I don't know, I've been a good guy for 60 years, maybe I'll start a life of crime after I retire. LOL
I'm with ghautz on this one, if'n somebody is gonna do bad things, the lack of a permit won't change a thing. There is such a lack of common sense and logic on the left.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

give a life time permit....but when you choose to step out of line give a life time ban on that right.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

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give a life time permit....but when you choose to step out of line give a life time ban on that right.
That is pretty much the way Indiana laws work. You have a right until you abuse it, then you get smacked upside the head and lose it
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

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give a life time permit....but when you choose to step out of line give a life time ban on that right.
Correct, that is the way it is supposed to work. You punish people who break the law.

Gun control laws punish law abiding citizens by attempting to limit or diminish their rights in an effort to control the acts of criminals who by default don't obey laws to start with.

Moonbat liberal logic at its finest.

And I am proud that my state got a D from the Brady bunch. Maybe we can get an F next time.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

What about people that have life time licenses and had an accident causing brain damage. They were fine when they first got the license but some head injured people turn out looking normal and weird on the inside.
I think there should be a check on license holders every few years.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

^^should it be your doctor that should notify the relevant areas in this case(guns, driving, child care authority's ect).....happens here in the UK....well they should.
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Are "Lifetime" concealed carry gun permits a good idea?

Don't EVEN get me started on this. Why the hell do they think it's better to punish the LAW ABIDING, and let the LAW LESS go free, is beyond me. Except they are too GUTLESS to face the real crook, the 'hide-my-head-in-the-sand' and pretend to be doing something concept.
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