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Trees ... The Mystery of ..

DAP

New member
I've traded in THE urban center for country and outdoor life almost 6 years ago.

I take a particular fascination with trees. BUT ...

They VARY so much even within the same species that identifying them is one helluva challenge. Lots of people think they know these things .. but when I cross check the identifications, they fall apart.

Most difficult are the naming conventions as they change for the same tree from region to region.

Here's the best example of late .. .up here in the old and fair state of Maine, you hear the long timers talk about Popple or Poppal trees. Turns out, and this wasn't easy to deduce, they Popple trees (generally unwanted except to look at) are also know as "Quaking Aspen", a term I'm much more familar with.

So .. if anyone can demystify "Russian Olive" for me, hopefully with lots of photos, I'd appreciate it. I'm talkin the kind of Russian Olive you find in the southern tier of New York state.

What a challenge ...
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
If you're talking about the medium sized, hardy, even growing, and decievingly attractrive tree I've heard referred to as "Russian Olive"...

I hate them! Actually, that particular tree (if it even is the one you're interested in), does have some great qualities, but I unwittingly ran a bicycle into one when I was young and tore myself up pretty good. I know, not the trees fault, but they look way to inconspicuous to have thorns! Why not really ugly, or a strange color, or maybe pretty flowers, or better yet "no thorns".

Anyway, I planted a "thornless" variety a while back; they're doing pretty well, but I think about half of them were mislabled or something [yep, thorns :( ]. Oh well, if life is a bed of roses, I have Russian Olives!:D
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I've never heard them described as POPPLE treas, but they are commonly sold here as Poplar. Poplar and Aspen are closely related species. Poplar is also related to another undesireable tree called a Cottonwood. The wood is harder than pine, but still fairly soft. Technically called a hardward, it is not hard. Depending on the minearls and elements in the soil the wood can be greenish in color. If you are making furniture or using it for trim, make sure you use all similar color wood as the blond wood stains up differnetly than the greenish wood. The grain pattern is somewhat similar to cherry or birch and can be stained to match either wood.

Poplar trees, especially the hybrids, are very fast growing and is often grown for firewood since it grows so quickly. It also spreads, I believe by suckers or some other underground method?
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Bob's right as usual. Popple, or poplar, or even popular, I've heard em all, spread by underground roots. Up north in my area, there has been many clearcuts. The popple is the first to come back, and I mean bigtime! It makes good forage for deer and other game. As they grow, they tend to be self thinning. In other words, the stronger trees shade out the weaker and they die. There are many different types of popple, I've even heard of a cross between poplar and maple, but I really don't know.
The Forestry Forum Take a look at this website, these guys know their wood.:tiphat::beer:
 

DAP

New member
Thanks guys ... Trees are awesome aren't they? The tree's I also inquired about called Russian Olive in the southern tier of new york grow EVERYWHERE and are documented as being "non-native". They don't have thorns like roses bushes, but they DO have starter twigs that are like 4 inch spines and a pea sized black fruit/berry that grows in small clumps. The SO used to use them to make dye (yields a gorgeous bronze/brown color). Anyway, I showed these tree to many people and got 4 different identifications from them.

Lastly, there was a tree at the New York residence that NOONE was able to identify, including 5 florists, 3 nursuries and a botanist who supposedly knew but never got back to me. DROVE ME BEZERK!!!!!!!

The Maine locals definetly refer to the Quaking Aspens as "Popple". Not to be confused with "Tulip Trees" that are referred to as "yellow poplar".

I have at least 4 books/field guides for eastern trees, etc, and they are all poor resources for IDing trees.

As a note of interest, at the new place in Maine, there are nine 50yo what looks to be "Lombardi Poplar" trees. These are the famous and extremely thin and tall trees we see in the great landscape paintings of France and Italy lining the river banks ... I'd never have thought of Maine for these guys, but they appear to be thriving.

I'll post a pic sometime after they've filled out this spring.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I had a forest ranger out to our property late fall a couple of years ago. Leaves had mostly fallen and I was amazed how he'd name off the different variety of trees. He explained how he identified them by their bark. I found that interesting ...but I still can only name a handful of species.
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
DAP said:
They don't have thorns like roses bushes, but they DO have starter twigs that are like 4 inch spines and a pea sized black fruit/berry that grows in small clumps.

Those 4 inch spines are what I was thinking about; didn't know they were actually starter twigs. I can't remember a fruit or lack thereof.

I just learned something and the day's only begun!:thumb:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I planted a couple Russian Olives on my property about 12 years ago. Mine do not have any fruit or any thorns. The branches are pretty stiff, but new growth is not thorn-like (in my opinoin). The leaves are green/grey with a grayish underside.

I wonder if my Russian Olives are different than yours?
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Here in Michigan, I think it's the DNR, have a tree sale each year. In the packet I get, they talk about "Autumn Olive". I always thought it was Russian Olive that they changed the name of. I've never looked that close, but they may be one and the same. It's touted as a native shrub.:confused:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
johnday said:
It's touted as a native shrub.:confused:

My Russian Olives are small trees, probably grow no taller than 15'. Might be the same thing, different name?
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
B_Skurka said:
I planted a couple Russian Olives on my property about 12 years ago. Mine do not have any fruit or any thorns. The branches are pretty stiff, but new growth is not thorn-like (in my opinoin). The leaves are green/grey with a grayish underside.

I wonder if my Russian Olives are different than yours?

The ones I'm thinking of, you'd definitely call thorns (or spines, or spikes or something nasty), but I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Russian Olive" is a misnomer for the tree I have in mind.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Spiffy, I have about 1000 native Hawthorn trees on my property. Sometimes they are sold as Washington Hawthorns. They flower in the spring and I have varieties that flower pink and others that flower white. All of them have a foul smell when in bloom. Look beautiful when in bloom but stink. They have thorns, some of the thorns eventually develop into branches. The are very hard wooded trees, generally small reaching maybe 15 or 20 tall, and the wood is brittle and branches are very densely packed and often die if not pruned.

Could that be your Olive Trees?
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Okay guys, I did a search and pulled this up.VA NHP Autumn Olive & Russian Olive Fact Sheet.
There's lots more sites I stumbled on, but thought this place would be a good start. Russian and Autumn Olive are of the same family, only different. It pays to know the proper name, hence the Latin. A lot of plants have local names suck as the poppel.:tiphat::beer:
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
I certainly don't recall a smell, good or bad; I don't even recall it having any type of flowers. I'll have to watch it this spring, and take a couple pictures if I remember.
 
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