• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

summer camp for palestinian refugees - here's my story

helene1234

New member
Hello everybody.

My name is Helene. I am Berg1948´s daughter, and the person who wrote an e-mail meant for my friends, but that was published here on this forum by my father. I am 30 years old, and in the middle of a carreer change which is what allowed me to take this time off.

I was astonished to see how many people had read my little travel report and also all the comments that followed it. I do feel, however, that many things need to be clearded up.


My reasons for going to Syria

It started with the fact that I like travelling, I have spendt most of my adult life abroad, and now I live in Barcelona, Spain. I find it extremely fulfilling to not just travel, but to be in a culture for a certain time, allowing me to understand more about the world that surrounds me, and also about myself. This far I have lived in Norway, Mexico, Australia, the USA, Ecuador, and now Spain, as well as having travelled to a few more.

I saw a tv-program this summer about volunteer projects. It immediatelly appealed to me, since it combines two things that I find important in life: 1) doing good, and 2) getting to know another culture up close from the inside, not from the outside like a tourist normally does.

The TV-program was about the international NGO "Service Civil International". In the US it´s known as International Voluntary Service. The organization is non-political and non-religious, and acts as a coordinator between people looking to do voluntary projects, and voluntary projects looking for people.

On their page, one can scroll through hundreds of projects in every imaginable corner of the world, and make searches based on personal interests (human rights, AIDS awareness, environment etc), by country /region and by date. By combining these factors I made a selection of projects that seemed interesting to me.

This particular project seemed interesting to me because it dealt with children, and I thought it would be a fun and 'easy' way to meet the locals. Among the group of volunteers that ended up choosing this camp, there were many different reasons for choosing this program. Some chose it for political reasons, being interested in the "Palestine case". Others chose it because they were interested in learning more about life as refugees, other again were students of political science and similar degrees wanting to learn more about the political situation in the Middle East.

Another reason for chosing this project, was that it was taking place in Syria in the Middle East, a region I had never visited. I of course did extensive research on the country before putting it on my application, and everything said the same; this is one of the safest countries in the Middle East with hospitable people and wonderful historical sights. I also have to admit that I had never made too big an effort to understand the complexity of the political situation of the Middle East, and this was an interesting opportunity for me to learn. I feel that it is very important not only to admit where one´s knowledge is limited, but also to try to do something about it.

A third reason was that I wanted to test myself, how I would function under different living conditions, to find out really how dependent I am on the luxury goods that I surround myself with; everything from western-style bathrooms to my electrical toothbrush and hairdryer, to the commodity of having a big double bed all to myself.

As you see, I did not choose this program because I had a special inclination towards the political situation of Palestine refugees.


Preparations for leaving

I booked a ticket that gave me two weeks of holidays after the end of the official program of the workcamp I had been accepted in, having the intention to travel around Syria and Jordan to get to know the region more after. I have to admit that I focussed most of my preparations on reading about the people, culture and sights to see in these countries, not so much on the palestine situation or the complex middle eastern politics, but after all my motif for going was more to get to know the local culture than to get political training.

Normally, the coordinating organization organizes a preparatory weekend workshop to prepare the participants on the situations they might face themselves with. In my case, I applied so late that there was no time to do this introductory seminar before leaving.


The volunteers

There were in total 11 European volunteers at the summer camp. They came from the following countries: Norway, Sweden, Germany, Poland, Switzerland, France, Italy and Spain. They were between 21 and 34 years old. 2 were boys, the rest were girls.


The host organization

The host organization is Jafra Youth Center. It is an organization that is run by and for Palestine youth in Yarmouk Refugee Camp in Damascus, Syria.

Jafra is unique in a Syrian context, it´s the only organization that not only receives volunteers from abroad, but it also sends out youth to participate in solidarity projects around Europe. It is supported by The European Commission and the before mentioned Service Civil International. They arrange different work camps that include differet workshops based on the dialogue between participants where they exchange their points of view and experiences, -not just between themselves but also with the local palestinian volunteers.

The local volunteers arrange a wide range of activities for the children of the camp to provide them social activities that keep them off the streets. This includes a football group, a theatre group, music and folklore dance groups, and workshops in photography, art and multimedia.

The work camps they arrange with international volunteers, focus on issues involving human rights, in particular 1) Human rights for refugees, 2) Women´s rights, and 3) Children´s rights.

The Children´s Summer Camp is a tool that is aimed at joining children from different refugee camps in Syria to meet and have fun, exchange experiences and build independent personalities. The organizers also aim at normalizing open and friendly relations between boys and girls in a mostly muslim society where they are rarely interacting, fostering this by having smaller groups with both sexes, and activities that never exclude sexes.

The international volunteers were invited to come help out at the summer camp for a couple of reasons. Mainly it was to make the children curious about the world, by having the opportunity to have the world coming all the way to them. This is particularly important due to the fact that few Palestinians have the opportunity to travel abroad, since they simply do not have a country or a passport. We were also there to let the children and the Palestine community know that there are people elsewhere in the world that care about their destiny and about the "Palestine case".

We spent the first week getting lessons on the political and historical background of the palestine refugeers, receiving lots of information about how the UNHCR and UNRWA work (the UN agencies in charge of refugees in general and Palestine refugees in particular). We were given an overview of the history of the Palestine refugees, and explanations of the political parties involved in the Palestine case. Throughout all these sessions we were able to ask many questions, ask for additional information and voice our opinions. The local volunteers who taught our classes made it clear to us that this was the Palestine side of the story, but still aimed at giving relatively balanced and neutral information and made it clear to us that the best way to understand the political situation in the Middle East, is to take this information from them, but also to compare and contrast it with what we find in media and other places.

When asked directly about their opinion about suicide "martyrs", the response from most were that they do not agree with it, since it kills civilians and actually hurts the palestine case in the public opinion in media worldwide. But on the other hand they also said that the did not agree with the action, but could understand why people did it -out of desperation in a situation where all other political and democratical means have failed to resolve the situation. For those interested in learning more about what happens inside the head of a possible suicide bomber, I recommend watching "Paradise Now", an Oscar-nominated film about two young men that are recruited to a suicide bombing attack on Israel. This movie was part of the curriculum during the preparation classes.

It was in other words no indoctrination and brainwashing of the international volunteers, but more an introduction to the lives of the palestinians and thereby the children that we were going to spend the Summer Camp with. The background information proved being really helpful when we "deep dived" into the Palestine reality when we started the work in the camp.


An introduction to the Yarmouk refugee camp

In the fifties Syria gave the palestine refugees a large piece of land outside of Damascus, Syria. Each family was given 50m2 where they could build homes. Syria accepted the Palestine refugees but never gave them citizenship, unlike for example Jordan, where all refugees were given jordanian citizenship and thereby the same civil rights as the originally jordanian citizens. The result is that now, in 2007, the third generation of Palestine refugees in Syria are growing up without the same rights as their Syrian neighbours, basic human rights such as the right to have a passport and to travel abroad. They do have residence though, and receive basic rights such as schooling and health care, although most of it is provided by the UN relief agencies.

Yarmouk today is a suburban area of Damascus. Its streets are similar to any other streets of Damascus, bursting with people, businesses, traffic etc. There are no borders surrounding it, and the citizens can move freely in and out of it. So what is the difference between being a Yarmouk Camp resident, and residing in any other part of Damascus? The main difference lies in that most of the citizens of Yarmouk are of palestine heritage, and therefore have different civil rights from those of people living in other parts of the city. The most obvious difference is the lack of a nationality, these people are neither palestinians (because the country no longer exists) nor syrians.


Activities in the summer camp

As I understand, summer camps are quite common among palestinian kids, but they do in general have a more military concept, with arms training, martial arts etc for example. This camp has a completely different focus, with no military training (although the morning routine of standing in lines and crying palestine war cries might seem military to some), the focus is on "normal" activities such as arts, sports and playing. From what I understand, this is something new to most palestinians, and the host organization told me that they had some problems explaining this to parents, since they too expect a more military-style camp. These camps are not usually mixed. The result is that the families that sent their children to this camp, are more likely to be among the more liberal families. I can not have much opinion about what "other" families in "other" camps with "other" activities are, since I have not had any contact with them.

The children had a quite full program every day, starting with morning gymnastics at 7, then breakfast from 8-9, and then from 9-10 they would be with their groups receiving classes about Palestine history. This means receiving stories about palestine war heroes, poets (such as mahmoud darwish, I recommend checking out his webpage for more information and inspiration) etc. Later the children had playtime for some hours, with group games of quite innocent character, palestine versions of children´s games that we all played as kids. In between activities, there would be some time spent parading and screaming palestine fight cries. Not that I understood much of what they said, but I assume it to be patriotic cries reenforcing their palestine identity.

After lunch there would be workshops, in the evening more playtime, then supper, then more games and playing in the evening, until about 11, 11:30 every night. And for whomever of you that has ever participated in a children´s camp, - I think one of the only ways of making all these kids go to bed at night, is to make them so tired from all the activities that they just pass out when it´s bedtime.


Culture shock in the workshops

The disturbing part would show up in the workshops of the afternoons, The international volunteers were assigned different activities that we would help out with. The different workshops were; dance, theatre, newspaper, ceramics and arts. Every group had one or two local volunteers in charge of them, and us Europeans helping out where we could. Most of the groups were unproblematic, but some issues surprised all of the volunteers in the theatre-group and in the art-group. We found it astonishing, and sometimes almost scary, how young children (aged 8-13) had imaginations so influenced by their violent history. For example, in the theatre group they were divided into smaller groups, and each group had to come up with a short play that they could act out on parent's night in the end of the camp. Most of the ideas that the children came up with, dealt with enacting lives of people near them who had suffered from zionist (term used by palestinians regarding israeli jews) aggressions. There were stories about how soldiers killed off entire families and how people managed to escape from this and eventually made it to safety in Syria. Everything was described in such violent and bloody terms, from children that were soo young.

A similar thing happened in the art classes, when asked to draw "whatever they felt like drawing", the children would draw palestine flags and maps, and sometimes they would depict assasinations that they had heard about in their families. It is important to mention that this conduct was not incited by the local volunteers, they were at times equally surprised.

This was something that surprised the local volunteers alot, and that shocked some of the international volunteers very much.

By facing a culture so drastically different from my own, it became very clear for me that in an intercultural setting, there are many things that cannot be judged from my ethnocentric point of view, it has to be judged based on the setting where it occurs. For example , I come from an extremely peaceful corner of the world, Norway, a corner of the world so non-violent that not even police officers carry guns. Based on that, it is very very very difficult for me to see the point of weapon training of children. But it has to be understood in it´s context, however strange it may be. My point is; many things I don´t necessarily agree with, but I observe them in their context, and in their context they somehow make sense. Weapon training for minors makes more sense when you know that you could be attacked any time, and that weapon training might be necessary for protecting your family.

A couple of the volunteers passed through quite a cultural shock, becoming very distressed with what they saw, and choosing to refrain from dealing with the situation, insisting that "our" European way of thinking IS the ONLY correct way of thinking, and whatever these kids were experiencing was just plainly wrong.

Yes, to a certain degree I can agree that we should not blindly accept any behavious under the pretext of "intercultural understanding", but still we should make sure that we understand that we are in a different context with a different culture, history, and daily life.

I can sit down next to a politically quite extremist palestinian and discuss with him, and as two adults we can exchange opinions, and I can choose to agree or disagree, and I can choose to respect or disrespect the opinions voiced. So even if our cultures are different, we can accept eachother and eachother's opinions. But when it comes to childhood, the differences become extreme. The difference between European childhoods and Palestinian childhoods was almost too big to comprehend.

We "westerners" grow up in a very overprotected society, as children we are protected from all things bad in the world. Our parents turn off the television when there are violent images of wars or other atrocities. We grow up in countries in peace, where our main concerns will circle more around the brand of jeans that are "in" this year, not worrying about our human rights - since we have all the rights in the world, and there´s very little possibility that anything will happen to change that situation.

Here on the other hand, people grow up in a refugee situation, with limited human rights, and with war very very close (both historically close and geographically close, and even close in family). Most have family members who have been killed in the conflict in the last 60 years. Everybody has been driven away from their land. And they define themselves as Palestinians, even though they don´t live on Palestine land, but are forced to live in refugee camps in a neighbouring country. They are the grandchildren of the people that were driven out of Palestine in '48, but they are still suffering from it. But, again readers, please don´t take this as me agreeing with the palestinians or against israelis. These are mere observations.


The future of Palestine

When it comes to political solutions of this issue, I have absolutely no idea what the best solution would be. The current discussions of a two-state solution do not appeal very much to the palestinians that I have talked to, since most of them want to go back to the town of their ancestors, and have little interest in being put on a random piece of Palestine land.

Apparently most discussions regarding a two-state solution leave out the palestine refugees living outside of Israel, since it mostly focuses on the ones living in the Palestine territories in Israel. I recognize, however, that I don't know enough about the political contents of these solutions, so please do not attack me if some of the details here are slightly incorrect.

What I DO know is what has been the opinions of the people I have spoken to. The majority believes in living in peaceful coexistence with jews in Israel. Several people referred to the peace process that South Africa has gone through in recent years after the end of the apartheid as a model that they would like to follow. A model of reconciliation. A situation where both parties would have to give and take some, but that in the end the result would be worth it.


My personal final conclusions

We were asked in the end of the work camp what we would do now with the experience. Most said that they would let the information sink, and then probably look for information contradicting or confirming what we had seen and heard while in the refugee camp. Some were looking to become more actively involved in the Palestine case. I can´t really say too much here about what other people will do or won't do regarding the palestine case. But I can tell you about my personal conclusions.

I have come to a conclusion that the Palestine case is not my fight to fight. Yes, there´s a lot of injustice happening to Palestinians, but I feel that one actually has to be palestinian to be a part of it. However if I were to be involved, it would be at a more generic level, speaking about human rights in general, and the suffering of ANY refugee in the world.

I would also like to add that all in all my month in the Middle East was spectacular. I have never before met some many kind and friendly people. It was safe for me to walk around everywhere alone. People treated me with respect everywhere I went. The hospitality was astonishing, several people invited me to dine at their place. A lot of people speak very good English and every time I found myself on public transport, people were always volunteering to help me and to make me feel secure and make me feel extremely welcome everywhere I went. During the time there I made lots of friends that I hope to keep in touch with, both from the local volunteers and from the other international volunteers, the people that shared this experience with me.

I found the local muslims not very conservative, and very accepting to other forms of dressing, acting etc. I think this is a result of Syria being a country with a relatively big minority of christians (appx 10%), that dress and look just like any Europeans, without receiving any hassle or being deprived of any rights. These muslim are not extremists that hate the west, like media prefer to picture arabs, but the absolute majority are kind and friendly people interested in other cultures and other ways of being. Of course, there will be "crazy" people there as well. I just tell you what I´ve seen and about the people that I have met, and my impression was absolutely 100% positive.

You might call me naïve for going on this trip, but I do believe that my reasons were clear, and I got out of it what I expected to get- and more.

Remember, my reason for going was the simple fact that I did not know enough, and I wanted to do something about that.

I am already planning my next trip to Yarmouk.
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
A very wonderful and life altering trip you've had, to be sure. I would wish you the best of luck with possible future trips to the region. Hopefully they will go as well or better.

Maybe you can make a difference, but from your descriptions you have reaffirmed my impressions. It is truly a shame that an insane minority can ruin the the way an entire people are viewed.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
Helene, welcome aboard! That is a fascinating narrative. It is interesting to see that situation from a different perspective than we have here. You said you traveled to enlighten yourself, but you have enlightened us as well.

I was surprised to see the relative prosperity of these refugees and to read that those who sent their kids to this camp are relatively liberal. It was disappointing to read how many of these kids have violence churning in their subconscious, but sadly, I think we expected this.

You and the other volunteers may be the only Westerners that some of those kids will encounter. Let's hope your visit changed a few minds. It seems that some of these kids are more open to learning than I had expected.

I don't see any better way to turn around the violence in that part of the world, than your one to one approach.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Helene,
Awesome post. Rep points for you. Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us here on FF. You insights into the Palestinian living is Syria was eye opening for me. I've understood Palestinians have no country, but I didn't consider the problem which arises when Syria refuses to give them citizenship. No passport means they are like prisoners. What if they wanted to return to the West Bank? What a predicament.

Are you back in Barcelona now? I had the pleasure of visiting there about 30 years ago. I really enjoyed the visit. A very nice / fun town to see the sights and have some fun. :thumb: :beer:
 

Cityboy

Banned
Helene,

That was a very interesting and informative post. Thank you!

One question:

Now that you have seen the "Palestinian cause", will you now be interested in spending the same amount of time in Israel educating yourself about the "Israeli cause"?
 

helene1234

New member
Dear Cityboy,

Like I mentioned in the beginning, my reason for going to Syria was NOT to educate myself about the "palestinian cause", but to learn first-hand more about the Middle-Eastern and Arab culture.

I wrote this in-depth explanation of my experience since so many people had read my dad's posting of a short e-mail I had written, and there were many incorrect assumptions and conclusions made from it that I felt had to be cleared out.

I am of course also interested in meeting Israeli people and getting to know their culture and lifestyle, just as I am interested in meeting people from everywhere else in the world.

I hope this answers your question. Feel free to ask more questions.

:)
 

Cityboy

Banned
I am of course also interested in meeting Israeli people and getting to know their culture and lifestyle, just as I am interested in meeting people from everywhere else in the world.

I hope this answers your question. Feel free to ask more questions.

:)

My question now becomes:

Will you spend an equal amount of time in Israel and provide us a similar detailed narrative?

In other words, are you as interested in Israeli culture as you are of Arab culture, and if so, will you act on this interest?
 

helene1234

New member
My question now becomes:

Will you spend an equal amount of time in Israel and provide us a similar detailed narrative?

In other words, are you as interested in Israeli culture as you are of Arab culture, and if so, will you act on this interest?

Dear Cityboy,

First of all, my travels are done for my own sake, I did not intend to involve readers of a particular forum. After more than 1000 people had read the e-mail to my dad, I was forced to do more explaining. Whatever other travels I do, will be done for my own enlightment, not in order to provide a forum with narratives.

Secondly, I understand your question, you want to know if I am interested in getting a balanced image of the conflict by getting to know "the other side" personally. But one of the things that I learned in Syria, is that this is not a black-and-white conflict with two parties in conflict with eachother. To fully understand all sides of the conflicts in the region I would have to spend time in similar settings with not only Israeli Jews, but also Palestinians in the Palestine territories of Israel, Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon, Islamist radical Palestinians, Liberal Palestinians, Iraqui refugees in Syria, residents of other less-developed refugee camps in Syria, exile-Palestinians, exile Jews, the Kurdish minorities, al Fattah fans, people in favour and against PLO, the communist minority palestinians, human rights NGOs, the christians of Syria, politicians of all of the countries involved etc etc etc.

I think coming to the conclusion that I will never grasp the entire complexity of the conflict, is a very limited conclusion, but it is still the truth.

It is a fact, however, that western media often depicts all arabs as terrorists out to wipe out western democracies and our way of life. I also thought the same. But I think my experience proved (at least to me) that the truth is less black/white, and it is something we all should remember and take into consideration.

And, if I were invited to join a children's summer camp in Israel I would most definitelly go.

:-D
 

Cityboy

Banned
Dear Cityboy,

Secondly, I understand your question, you want to know if I am interested in getting a balanced image of the conflict by getting to know "the other side" personally. But one of the things that I learned in Syria, is that this is not a black-and-white conflict with two parties in conflict with eachother. To fully understand all sides of the conflicts in the region I would have to spend time in similar settings with not only Israeli Jews, but also Palestinians in the Palestine territories of Israel, Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon, Islamist radical Palestinians, Liberal Palestinians, Iraqui refugees in Syria, residents of other less-developed refugee camps in Syria, exile-Palestinians, exile Jews, the Kurdish minorities, al Fattah fans, people in favour and against PLO, the communist minority palestinians, human rights NGOs, the christians of Syria, politicians of all of the countries involved etc etc etc.


:-D

Helene,

You have answered my question.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
my reason for going to Syria was . . .
No commentary about your trip, but here are some things to consider about Syria:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2512380.ece said:
The Sunday Times
September 23, 2007

Israelis seized nuclear material in Syrian raid

Uzi Mahnaimi and Sarah Baxter

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.

The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.

They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean. This raised fears that Syria might have joined North Korea and Iran in seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.

Israeli special forces had been gathering intelligence for several months in Syria, according to Israeli sources. They located the nuclear material at a compound near Dayr az-Zwar in the north.

Evidence that North Korean personnel were at the site is said to have been shared with President George W Bush over the summer. A senior American source said the administration sought proof of nuclear-related activities before giving the attack its blessing.

Diplomats in North Korea and China believe a number of North Koreans were killed in the strike, based on reports reaching Asian governments about conversations between Chinese and North Korean officials.

Syrian officials flew to Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, last week, reinforcing the view that the two nations were coordinating their response.


The Sunday Times said:
September 16, 299-007
Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

The official story that the target comprised weapons destined for Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Lebanese Shi’ite group, appeared to be crumbling in the face of widespread scepticism.

Andrew Semmel, a senior US State Department official, said Syria might have obtained nuclear equipment from “secret suppliers”, and added that there were a “number of foreign technicians” in the country.

Asked if they could be North Korean, he replied: “There are North Korean people there. There’s no question about that.” He said a network run by AQ Khan, the disgraced creator of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, could be involved.

But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even more deadly?

Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in exchange for economic aid? Or was the material bound for Iran

And also:
The Sunday Times said:
The links between North Korea and Syria
September 16, 2007

Deep in a tunnel under Mount Myohang, in North Korea, its regime has preserved as a museum piece the Kalashnikov assault rifle and pistols sent as gifts from President Hafez al-Assad of Syria to Kim Il Sung in the early years of their friendship.

Today North Korea and Syria are ruled by the sons of their late 20th century dictators, men who share more than just a common fear of the United States and a fondness for authoritarian family rule.

In recent months, Kim Jong Il and Bashar Assad have quietly ordered an increase in military and technical co-operation which has caught the attention of western and Israeli intelligence. Syria possesses the biggest missile arsenal and the largest stockpile of chemical weapons in the Middle East, built up over the last two decades with arms bought from North Korea. North Korea, which exploded a nuclear device in October last year, has become critical to Syria’s plans to enhance and upgrade its weapons.

Syria’s liquid fuelled Scud-C missiles depend on “essential foreign aid and assistance, primarily from North Korean entities,” said the CIA in a report to the US Congress in 2004. “We are looking at Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern,” the CIA director also confirmed to Congress. Both North Korea and Syria are secret police states and among the hardest intelligence targets to crack.

But earlier this year, foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs took note of an increase in diplomatic and military visits between the two. They received reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to Pyongyang, almost the only air route into the country. They also picked up observations of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who watch the trains from North Korea to the industrial cities of northeast China.

Then there were clues in the official media.

On August 14, the North Korean minister of foreign trade, Rim Kyong Man, was in Syria to sign a protocol on “co-operation in trade and science and technology.” His delegation held the fifth meeting of a “joint economic committee” with its Syrian counterparts. No details were disclosed. The conclusion among diplomats was that the deal involved North Korean ballistic missiles, maintenance for the existing Syrian arsenal and engineering expertise for building silos and bunkers against air attack. Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles which it bought from North Korea over the last 15 years. In the 1990s it added cluster warheads for the Scud-Cs that experts believe are intended for chemical weapons.

Like North Korea, Syria has an extensive chemical weapons programme including Sarin, VX and mustard gas, according to researchers at the Centre for Nonproliferation Studies at the Monterey Institute in the US. The Scud-C is strategically worrying to Israel because Syria has deployed it with one launcher for every two missiles. The normal ratio is one to 10. The conclusion: Syria’s missiles are set up for one devastating first strike. The second cause for concern is that the Scud-C is a notoriously inaccurate weapon. It is better for scattering chemical weapons than hitting one target.

Diplomats believe North Korean engineers have worked on modifying the Scud-Cs to extend their 300 mile range. That means they can be based in the deserts of eastern Syria – the area of the September 6 Israeli strike. More worrying for Israel were reports from diplomats in Pyongyang that Syrian and Iranian observers were present at missile test firings by the North Korean military last summer and were given valuable telemetry data. North Korean scientists are working on a new-generation Scud-D which would extend the range of an accurate missile strike and is of intense interest to Syria.

For years, the US and Israel believed Syria was committed to a calculated strategic balance. They saw North Korean weapons sales to the Middle East as purely a source of revenue - apart from seafood, minerals and timber, North Korea is impoverished and has little else to sell.

But the political risk assessment has changed. Both dictators see their regimes under threat from the United States. Both are capable of unpredictable action and little is known about the internal pressures upon their regimes.

In 2003 the North Koreans twice privately threatened American negotiators with “transfer” of their nuclear weapons technology to other states. The nuclear threat in Syria was long believed dormant, as Damascus appeared to rely on a chemical first-strike as an unconventional deterrent. But in a period of détente the US and its allies concurred when China sold a 30kw nuclear reactor to Syria in 1998 under IAEA controls.

American intelligence officials believe Syria then recruited Iraqi scientists who fled after the fall of Saddam Hussein. Like other countries in the region, it is believed to have renewed its pursuit of nuclear research.

The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran continues to perplex diplomats and intelligence analysts. One fact is that Syria has served as a conduit for the transport to Iran of an estimated 50 mln pounds worth of missile components and technology sent by sea from North Korea to the Syrian port of Tartous, diplomats said. Another fact is that Damascus and Tehran have set up a 125 mln pounds joint venture to build missiles in Syria with North Korean and Chinese technical help, they said. North Korean military engineers have worked on hardened silos and tunnels for the project near the cities of Hama and Aleppo, the diplomats added.

Since the Israeli strike in eastern Syria on September 6, all sides have kept silent about the nature of the target.

North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its nuclear weapons programmes in exchange for security guarantees and economic aid. So diplomats think it unlikely that Kim has authorized a radical step such as selling nuclear components to Syria.

But nothing in the negotiations inhibits North Korea from aggressively pursuing its non-nuclear weapons sales abroad and from building alliances with other foes of the United States. And two intriguing messages from the North Koreans in the aftermath of the Israeli strike were tell-tale clues to their intense interest in the action. On September 10, four days after the raid, Kim sent a personal message of congratulations to Assad on the Syrian dictator’s 42nd birthday. “The excellent friendly and co-operative relations between the two countries are steadily growing stronger even under the complicated international situation,” Kim said. The next day, in a message that went largely un-noticed as the United States commemorated September 11, 2001, the North Koreans condemned the Israeli action as “illegal” and “a very dangerous provocation.”
 

helene1234

New member
Well there's lots of propaganda happening on both sides. Some of you might find it interesting to see the Syrian side of the story...

Press is government-controlled in Syria, with all the propaganda and one-sidedness that involves. To see "their" side of the news, check out Syria Times and their online version. (FF won't let me publish hyperlinks)

The truth is probably somewhere in between of the news referred to above and the versions that the government officials of Syria publish.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Press is government-controlled in Syria, with all the propaganda and one-sidedness that involves. To see "their" side of the news, check out Syria Times and their online version. (FF won't let me publish hyperlinks)

The truth is probably somewhere in between. . .
I often read The ARAB News. I also, for a long time, corresponded with some Saudi natives. I was shocked at how one-sided their news coverage it. They were shocked at how open and honest the western press is with coverage. They often do not believe stories from the BBC, Reuters or any of the American press.

Several Saudi's told me that Americans kills Arabs so that we can harvest their organs. There are still press reports of that occurring at Guantanimo Bay with the prisoners there. In fact they honestly believe that the prison camp is an "organ farm" so that rich Americans can get transplants.

I doubt if our free press is too far from accurate. I do know that their state run press if full of propaganda as I have seen it with my own eyes.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
...FF won't let me publish hyperlinks...
First write some text like 'Syria Times Article'. Highlight that phrase then click the
createlink.gif
symbol (above the Reply screen) to add the URL that you want the phrase to hotlink to.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
First write some text like 'Syria Times Article'. Highlight that phrase then click the
createlink.gif
symbol (above the Reply screen) to add the URL that you want the phrase to hotlink to.

Good advice CA.
However, it won't work for new users. I PM'd Helene to let her know it SHOULD work now that she has 6 posts. I prevent ALL new users from posting links and pictures until after they have 5 posts under their belt. Thank the spammers for this headache. Apologies to all non-spamming new users. But, for most, 5 posts will come pretty quickly and then you can post URL's and pictures all you want.
 
Top