Smith & Wesson Chief Special 45ACP

[Melensdad]

I'm digging around looking for a couple pistols, definitely looking for compact carry guns. I stumbled upon a gun I'm not familiar with.

The Smith & Wesson Chief Special auto pistol.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=33851&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=
Its available in 9 or 45. 7 +1 and 6 +1 respectively
Height ?
Length 6.5"
Width ?
Weight 23oz

I've got a compact Smith 45, its an older 4516. Trigger pull in DA is pretty heavy, nice and crisp in SA, but its heavy as a brick for a small gun weighing in at about 34 ounces (11oz more than the Chiefs Special 45) . I'm looking for a lighter gun. This gun is 3 ounces lighter than the NRA's mini-gun of the year, the Springfield EMP, and it is also currently available in a 45, while the EMP is currently in very limited quantities and only in 9mm while future calibers will be released.

Anyone familiar with the newest generation of Smith & Wesson pistols? Or more particularly this one. How is the quality control on the Smiths?



Here is how it compares to other guns:

Springfield EMP
http://www.springfield-armory.com/ar...hp?version=110 (http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=110)
Cal: 9mm, 9 + 1 capacity (future 40S&W, and 45GAP)
Height 5"
Length 6.6"
Width ???
Weight 26oz

CZ 2075 RAMI
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=48
Cal: 9mm and 40 S&W, 10 + 1 and 8 + 1 respectively
Height 4.7"
Length 6.5"
Width 1.25"
Weight 25oz

Kimber Ultra Raptor II
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...raptor.phpCal: (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/customshop/ultraraptor.phpCal:) 45 ACP, 7 + 1 capacity
Height 4.75"
Length 6.8"
Width 1.8"
Weight 25oz

Picture 1 = Chief's Special 45
Picture 2 = 4516 compact 45

[Melensdad]

Well nobody here had any info on the S&W Chiefs Special so I did some digging. There are actually a lot of things written about this little gun and I think it jumped up on my list of guns to consider. Its available in both 9mm and 45ACP.

http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/S&W_Chiefs_Special.htm

The link above is a pretty long review, its is also typical of the reviews about the gun. Basically says its a good gun despite the fact that it is a S&W. :yum:

I believe I need to find one of these and wrap my hands around it to see if I like it.

Here is a small sample from the article:
The gun really is in all honesty an ugly duckling... but we all know how that story ended. Forget the gun is a strange and shrunken version of a 3rd Gen Smith with a finish that reminds us of a primer coated Chevy Nova... and close your eyes. The gun really has a good feel to it for one so small. The gun carries well tucked into an inside the waistband holster. The gun hides well, too. The rubber grips are not catchy enough to snag clothes and cause the gun to print, but they are soft enough to afford a seriously usable fighting grip even with only two fingers. The gun draws easily and points naturally. This is an aberration of everything I've ever thought of S&W autos before I examined this CS9.

The trigger is long and a little heavy, but smooth. I can deal with heavy. I can deal with long. I can deal with both, if the trigger is smooth. Most of the 3rd Gen Smith's have smoother than average triggers, and some are smoother than others. There is a little creep at the end of the pull, just before the sear breaks and the gun fires... just a touch. Overall, this is a good trigger. One of the better ones that I've felt on a gun that costs under a grand.
And later in the article he wrote:
This Chief's Special 9mm is a tool that I have a lot of confidence in. I would trust it to defend my loved ones... I can hit with it. In spite of hitting low, I was able to bounce cans and soda bottles with pleasant regularity... so a human sized target would be no great challenge. I can carry it with me most places I go that are not post offices or other federal buildings. The more I look at this little pistol, the more I like it... and the more I am tempted to adopt it as one of my own. I really can't believe I'm even thinking this. This is a Smith & Wesson Third Generation Auto for crying out loud, and I'm liking it!

One interesting thing, the author compared this gun to the CZ "RAMI" which is of similar size. The author suggested the CZ is a high quality. And that is also the impression I used to have of the CZ line. But I've been reading some of the RAMI reviews and some of the discussions of the CZ RAMI at the CZ discussion forums. YIKES the owners of the pistol have dubbed it the "jam-o-matic" but some of them still carry it?!? I can't imagine carrying a gun that jams.

Is it just me but to me a gun must have ABSOLUTE reliability!?! I can live with a gun that jams on the target range if I like everything else about it. But not as a carry gun. So I may look at the RAMI just because I've always like the CZ 75 design, but I will be looking at the Smith & Wesson CS9 and CS45 as carry guns.

[Dargo]

I really don't have too many S&W firearms, maybe 6 or 8, but the ones I have seem to be of reasonable quality.

[JimR]

I worked for 2 1/2 years as a sales rep for a national gun distributor. I sold a lot of S&W's and only had a few complaints on them. I had heard that the CS 45ACP kicked pretty hard. I have no hands on experience with that particular firearm.

[Melensdad]

I worked for 2 1/2 years as a sales rep for a national gun distributor. I sold a lot of S&W's and only had a few complaints on them. I had heard that the CS 45ACP kicked pretty hard. I have no hands on experience with that particular firearm.
The more I read about sub-compact 45s, the more I think that there are good reasons to buy a 9mm. It seems that sub-compact 45s (and in many cases 40S&Ws of the same size) tend to be less reliable than their larger counterparts. However in the small frame guns, the 9mm still seems to offer reliability.

I would guess it is related to the speed of the slide, mass of the slide, etc. But on the dedicated gun forums there are too many failure to feed/failure to eject issues in the mini-45's.

[JimR]

The more I read about sub-compact 45s, the more I think that there are good reasons to buy a 9mm. It seems that sub-compact 45s (and in many cases 40S&Ws of the same size) tend to be less reliable than their larger counterparts. However in the small frame guns, the 9mm still seems to offer reliability.

I would guess it is related to the speed of the slide, mass of the slide, etc. But on the dedicated gun forums there are too many failure to feed/failure to eject issues in the mini-45's.

I can only imagine that this is from the heavy hammering that the small pistol takes from the 45acp round. I hear that the Springfield Armory XD's hold up really well. I sold hundreds and hundreds of those guns. I always had backorders in on those pistols.

[Melensdad]

The XD may well be better designed than many others. Over on some of the 1911 forums I am a member of it is very common to hear about the mini-1911 style pistols having problems. On the CZ forums, the smaller frame guns can't manage the 40S&W. Kahr's MP line up seems to be ultra-reliable in 9mm while 40S&W seems generate complaints.

There is no question that the smaller guns take more abuse from bigger calibers.

I recently purchased a 9mm Para Ordnance instead of the nearly identical pistol in 45ACP. Never owned a 9mm prior to this one but I bought it because I have heard so much about problems with sub-compact 45s that I figured I would be better off with a reliable gun!

[Sir Knight]

You can't go wrong with the 3913TSW, 4013TSW or the 4513TSW (left to right) ...

http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f53.jpg

... For better concealment, go with the 3913TSW or the 4513TSW which are single stacked (7+1 and 6+1 respectfully). For greater firepower, go with the double stack 4013TSW at 9+1.