View Full Version : Overheating in VW motor in ST4
07-15-2012, 12:46 PM
Yesterday I decided after two months of inactivity ST4 to make a short walk to the premises of the local Flying club.
I noticed some things during the "drive walk" with the ST4 that I want to share with you, and I need your opinion.
Saturday, 7 - 14-2012, at 19:30, a distance of + - 10 km = 6.25 ml, at a temperature of 38C = 100.4 F.
I noticed during the walk that the temperature of the VW motor began to rise gradually to the point of overheating. The evidence in the organ of temperature are (0-60 -80 to 100 - 120-150). Ok.
When I reached my destination after 3 miles the temperature had reached already in 120. I worked the engine with 2nd and 3rd gear.
In the Flying Club, I opened the bonnet to escape the heat from the engine more quickly. Also there are some points (to warm the cabin) which are so warm that it is impossible to touch them.
First Question: Is it logical that a similar situation occurs overheating the motor in such a short distance 3 miles, on land which is flat, green fields?
We do not have in our company, members and friends from Lebanon, because they know a lot of things how to drive the ST4 in areas with more extreme temperatures such as the desert.
Τhey could explain us, the experience from a warm environment that we do not know, as it does, and analyzed, for example Lyndon for places with extreme cold temperatures.
Second Question : I have serious difficulties in launching the vehicle from 1st gear to 2nd gear. I Increased the speed normaly but no satisfactory slip speed to change the 2nd gear. So, often I start to move the ST4 with a 2 speed.
Is that correct ?
For the slip fault, perhaps the fact is that the rubber track is more tightly than is necessary.
- Should we just unscrew the bolts on the rear wheels and reduce the intensity of the tracks.?
- Whats your opinion in this problem with the rubber tracks?
I also noticed that the "big wheels", the rear wheels and boogie wheels, are were very hot, due to friction through the drive guides.
The same behavior was ST4 and during the return to the garage, after staying 2 hours in the flying Club.
Aside small or big problems arose during the course of the "drive walk" with the ST4, it was an interesting experience that will surely give us, useful conclusions about the things we need to improve, before start to fall the first snow in the mountains.
07-15-2012, 12:52 PM
At a 100 degree ambient air temp any VW motor is stressed and going to run hot. The old bugs and vans I ran were that way. The snowcat does not give that good of air flow.
07-15-2012, 01:42 PM
Very good photos!
But Muelman is right, the engine is marginal in a car at those temps, and in that unit the engine is pulling much harder than it would in a car. Other than hanging large chunks if ice all over it, you'll have to wait for cooler weather for what they were designed.
As far as shifting, they aren't really shifted like a car, most of the time you start them in the gear you will run them in which is slow, or really slow...
What model plan is that in front of the hanger?
i can't convert celcious to farenhight but here is what i do for summer running on mine, and have successfuly run it through boggy conditions at 70 degrees americain. first i run exclusively aero shell oil, aircraft oil is the only oil blended for air cooled engines now days, and oil does help cool the engine. secondly i don't lug the motor and run it between 3 and 4 k lastly, that plate that is installed between the cab and engine bay underneath i removed it and i watch my cht make shur it never exceeds 450 degrees f
07-16-2012, 01:07 PM
The type of airplane in front of the hanger is a Ultra light Tucano Ferrari SRL Aircraft.
Throughout the week, temperatures will be high on + - 100 F.
No snow nor for sample.
Thanks for the advices, I thought that at some point i will had boil inside the cabin from the points the heat derived through the engine exhaust.
The next time I'll take some eggs to eat an omelette:yum::yum::yum:
The reason I did this ride in such conditions in the middle of summer, is that the flying club had a meeting - few friends and members, and i had to moved with the ST4 to show there.
Also inside the hangar there are also two planes with recycled materials (wood - aluminum), one with a engine VW.
These airplanes were manufactured in Florina by the Head of Flying Club, which he happens to be the main instructor in courses on piloting in small aircraft.
I wanted to show them, the ST4 with the same engine VW.
It really is incredible, the way in which we can use the design features of the engine VW.
With flights that makes this kind of plane with VW engine showed no overheating problem as my ST4. This airplane has taken part in many competitions- meetings and awarded by the organizers as prototype air craft construction .
Don Maybe I should install a big fan or an air propeller in front to be in a constant temperature the VW engine.:yum::yum::yum:
300 H and H
07-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Maybe at night you could walk it back home in the cool. Or the early morning when it's cooler as well...
A trailer would be nice thing to add for the ST...:whistling:
Great looking machine! And of course great pictures as well.
trailers are nice but another option which is cheep like me is to get a universal tow bar i have one fr my jeep and st the st tows nice just don't exceed 20mph with it or you will rattle every bolt loose
08-25-2012, 01:09 PM
Prompted by the VW engine overheating from the high temperatures of July and the big heat inside the cabin from the conductors of the motor, I want to ask and observe the following.
a) How dangerous is if there are oil leaks in the engine ?
b) What are the symptoms - from signs of oil fumes in the cabin except the smells and signs smoke?
The toxic fumes of the oil will be transported by the warm air inside the cabin.
I notice in the videos in you tube that the windows on the cab roof, mostly open, even during a snowstorm.
The reason for these observations - questions, it was a real event that happened a few years ago in Greece, with the fall of an airplane.
The cause of the fall of the plane was the fainting of the crew and passengers from the entrance of toxic fumes from the engine leaks through the air conditioning system.
It was a tragic flight that originated in the island of Cyprus. The alerts monitoring radar, activating the Greek airforce, which spotted the wayward airplane to fly in Greek airspace.
The references of the airforce pilots were talking about a passenger who was found in the cabin of the aircraft, in the cockpit and was responsible for the flight of the aircraft, because all pilots and crews had fainted.
The attempt of a passenger who had a diploma to navigate small aircraft were fruitless as he fainted in the cockpit and the plane flew on autopilot.
The plane eventually crashed - found the debris on top of a mountain.
(Maybe...I make a case - scenario in these cases to red alert... it had hit by a rockets from the airforce planes to avoid falling into a residential area - airport etc).
300 H and H
08-25-2012, 01:58 PM
Cabin heat should be from the heat exchangers around the exhaust manifolds. Leaks from the exhaust into this exchanged air would be deadly. Oil leaks on the other hand may or may not be in the air stream that will make it's way into the cabin, depending on where the oil leak is..
At least that is how I understand it. I run my ST with the windows open to clear the moister out, and clear the windows. Then I close them if it's cold, say 10 deg F. or so to keep the heat in. If it is 25 deg +, I open the rear door as well as the windows. Other wise I roast like a leg of lamb...:doh::wink:
I looked again at your pictures and wonder if your tracks aren't a bit tight? Will it "roll" when you hit the clutch while rolling?
Very rarely do I use 1st gear. I start in 2nd....
the heater air system is pretty safa aside from rot or a crack inside the heat exchanger with th efresh air system you always have a positive air pressure on the heater boxes some oil and exhaust funes can get in ti the air system causing discomfort this usualy happens with an engine running crappy and bad exhaust connections. as for oil leaks engine oil can catch fire when heated enough and it has been documented that oil dripping on exhaust systems can catch fire,how ever it usualy results in stinky vapors.the big conceni i have is oil will burn extreamly hot coupled with all the magnisum in your engine an engine fire could be a desaster. it is for this reason i keep the engine cpmpartment clean and freee of debries. i want no fire in my rig or in the back country if a leak shows up like an airplane its fixed as soon as possable not when i feel like it
08-25-2012, 07:39 PM
I thought 180 to 200f is ideal runnimg temps. I have mine at 180 most of the time.
08-26-2012, 12:30 AM
There's a "thread" that addresses this. It's just called VW Engine. This linc will send you to it and some other ST4 related matters. In the second post there are lincs.
08-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Thanks guys - Don, Jim, Kirk and Lyndon for the quick answer
The conclusion from my small experience on rides with ST4, is that I didn't realize something strange inside the cab about the fumes, that would cause me these questions.
I dont have any exhaust fumes in my cab. Nο headaches, dizziness, and vomiting symptoms trends, no milk etc.
The engine is tested, it is in very good condition, I have placed new exhaust- muffler inside the engine, and the pipe around is new. :hammer: Only i have to change the pipe section around the small spocket ( next summer). The other section close to rig, in left side is in verry good condition.
On the wooden floor I sealed with a rubber glue around the frame - rig to be no case for introducing fumes from under the ST4.
These questions were caused by the fact the cause of the fall of the aircraft (737 -31S 15 th Augast 2005), and of course the thoughts that I did, on the occasion of the way that works the air cooled engine VW.
I believe that if any problems arise in the future, we must be able to know exactly what caused.
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