Carry what you like as they all work.

[joec]

Interesting read on what guns are effective for self defense which in a nut shell is any gun.

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=21790&utm_source=EmailDirect.com&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Chronicle+Vol+1+Issue+1

[TiredRetired]

Reliable and cheap. In that order. Get's the job done and when the cops take it away from you, you're not losing a prize possession. I would never CC one of my prized Colt, RR or Ithaca 1911's. I know some that keep Mosin Nagant revolvers all around the house for exactly that reason. Under 100 bucks last I knew and the ammo is fairly cheap as well.

[joec]

I agree TR as I carry either a Taurus PT 111 pro or a RIA 1911 CS. Both guns cost me in the $350 range so I'm not out a high dollar gun. Now that I think about it I don't own a high dollar gun. :wink:

[FrancSevin]

I agree TR as I carry either a Taurus PT 111 pro or a RIA 1911 CS. Both guns cost me in the $350 range so I'm not out a high dollar gun. Now that I think about it I don't own a high dollar gun. :wink:

Well then Joec, they will all work for you.:brows:

I also do not own a high dollar pistol. The Wife has an $800.00 Smith and Wesson but I doubt she will ever have to use it. The Blackhawk 357 is right there for her to grab. More effective and less than $300.00.

[Catavenger]

I read somewhere that the .22 in your pocket is better than the .45 home in your gun safe.
Where I live is hot & it's difficult to conceal a weapon I don't carry it all the time but when I think I might need it I take my .22 Beretta in a pocket hoster.

[FrancSevin]

I read somewhere that the .22 in your pocket is better than the .45 home in your gun safe.
Where I live is hot & it's difficult to conceal a weapon I don't carry it all the time but when I think I might need it I take my .22 Beretta in a pocket hoster.

I would agree with you.
A .22 with 7 to 10 in the mag ought to sufficiently ward off most aggressors.
I've never seen anyone not react to a swarm of bees.

[Av8r3400]

If these women can carry...

Concealed Carry Holsters & Outfits for Women - YouTube

Flashbang bra holster demo, fast, and practical. - YouTube

FLASHBANG BRA HOLSTER as seen on NCIS:LA! - YouTube

If you can carry a wallet (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/617145/desantis-pocket-shot-holster-ambidextrous-ruger-lcp-kel-tec-p32-p3at-kahr-p380-taurus-738-tcp-leather-black?cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Self-Defense+-+Holsters+%26+Belts-_-PriceCompListing-_-617145) you can carry a .380 (which may actually stop a perp, a .22 wont). If I were to own a .380 Kel-Tec this is how I would carry it... every day.

[Catavenger]

I rarely carry a firearm. Years ago I had a Walther PPS .380. I prefer a handgun with a hammer rather than striker fired. I don't think that revolver that's pointed at her breast looks real safe. Anyway since I'm a dude I don't wear a bra.

[squerly]

He concluded, “In a certain (fairly high) percentage of shootings, people stop their aggressive actions after being hit with one round regardless of caliber or shot placement. These people are likely NOT physically incapacitated by the bullet. They just don’t want to be shot anymore... For some reason I found this funny.

[muleman]

That is why the 22 and 22 mag is a very effective round. It may not kill them but it still hurts like hell.

[joec]

That is why the 22 and 22 mag is a very effective round. It may not kill them but it still hurts like hell.

Actually if you take combat out of the equation the single most gun deaths are due to a .22. That was according to and FBI forensic report from around the nation at the time I saw it which I think was 2000 or 2001.

[EastTexFrank]

I'm a strong believer in the "any gun is better than no gun" philosophy but I must admit that I feel more comfortable carrying a caliber just a little larger than a .22. My .22 is used almost solely for plinking and relocating nuisance pests around the house though if it was the first thing to come to hand ......

[Av8r3400]

I'll agree, a .22 is better than nothing.

However: Per the other thread discussion, if you are going to pull a firearm, you are intending to shoot someone, wounding them is not an option. A .22 will wound the person who will then charge you with attempted murder and sue you out of existence in civil court.

A .380 JHP will make a messy spot on the floor where they hauled away a corps that attempted to harm you (remember: I was in fear for my [family's] life and I want a lawyer).

[EastTexFrank]

However: Per the other thread discussion, if you are going to pull a firearm, you are intending to shoot someone, wounding them is not an option. A .22 will wound the person who will then charge you with attempted murder and sue you out of existence in civil court.


I also have a philosophy on that.

If your .22 holds 6 or 10 rounds, once you have made the decision to shoot there's no sense in saving any for tomorrow. Let them all rip.

[Cowboy]

I have read 100's of articles from self proclaimed "firearms experts" that contradict each other most of the time, but every article i have read was well worth reading IMHO. :thumb:

This was another good one and i will post my favorite article below. :wink:

That said, there is no better weapon IMO for self defense then a 12 guage shotgun, you just have to be creative on how to conceal it. :w00t2: My second choice is a 357 mag with "hydro shock" or "black talon" ammo if you can find it, i have plenty of both. :biggrin:

Any serious discussion of handgun calibers should begin with the acknowledgement that, when armed with a handgun only, you are distinctly disadvantaged in firepower, range and accuracy compared to most rifles and shotguns. The only real reasons for choosing a handgun over a long-arm are concealability, convenience, and handiness.

Concealability and convenience are obvious; handiness refers to their usefulness in close-quarters, like indoors or "social encounters", and the fact they can be used one-handed, while the off hand is otherwise occupied.
Thus, you naturally want the most powerful, reliable, highest-capacity handgun possible (due to the firepower disadvantage) that will still fulfill the need for concealment, convenience and/or handiness.
The three calibers that have been proven, through actual shooting incidents, to be the most effective in defensive shooting are the .45, .40, and .357 magnum. Preferred loads are typically a quality hollowpoint, such as the Cor-bon, Gold-dot or Hydrashok JHP's.
The following data is drawn from Evan Marshall and Dr. Fuller's studies on both ballistic tests and actual shooting incidents.
"Load" is the specific load, "vel" is velocity in fps, "Energy" is in foot-lbs, "Penetr" is avg penetration inches in ballistic gelatin, "F.Dia." is final diameter of recovered bullets, "One-stop" is the percentage of times, in actual shootings, that a single hit to the torso stopped a subject's attempt to attack or flee. Hyd-Shok is Hydroshok, Goldsabr is gold-saber, JHP is jacketed hollow-point,
.45 auto
Load vel. energy penetr F.Dia. One-stop
230gr Hyd-shok 850 349 12 0.78 94%
230gr Goldsabr 875 391 14 0.75 93%
Corbon 185grJHP 1150 544 11.3 0.70 92%
.40 auto
Corbon135gJHP 1300 507 9.8 0.56 96%
Fedrl 155grJHP 1140 448 12 0.65 94%
165gr Goldsabr 1150 485 12 0.68 94%
.357magnum
Fedrl 125grJHP 1450 584 12 0.65 96%
Fedrl 110grJHP 1295 410 10 0.40 90%
125gr GoldSabr 1220 413 13 0.60 84%
Obviously, the .40 has consistently high stopping power. The .45 is roughly equivalent. The .357magnum, mostly a revolver caliber, has exceptionally good stopping power with an inexpensive Federal 125 grain jacketed hollow point.
Secondary defense calibers, with lesser but still effective stopping power, are the 9mm and the .38 Special. In both calibers, the most effective load is the Cor-bon 115 grain JHP+P. Both of these calibers, especially the .38sp, are known to have limited ability to penetrate intervening obstacles like automobile windshields, or hard targets like the human skull.
Load vel. energy pentr. F.Dia. One-stop
9mm auto
Corbon115grJHP+P 1350 466 14 0.55 91%
Rem.124grGoldSabr+P 1180 384 12 0.65 83%
Win 115grSiltip 1225 383 8 0.72 83%
.38special
Corbon115gr JHP+P 1250 399 15 0.58 83%
Win158grSWCHP+P 890 278 15 0.62 78%
Fedrl 125grJHP+P 945 248 12 0.69 73%
Corbon 115grain Jacketed Hollowpoints +P(highpower) are the clear winner...but these hot loads are expensive and should only be used in high-quality guns that specifically say they are suitable for +P ammo.
The calibers here termed as "Last Resort" are for times when it is impossible to carry anything but a very small handgun. These are the .380 and .32 auto calibers. The best .380 load is the Cor-bon 90 grain JHP+P, or arguably the 90 grain Hydrashok. The best .32 load is either the 60grain Silvertip or Gold-dot...the Gold Dot may have better penetration.
Load vel. energy penetr F.Dia. One-stop
.380 auto
90grCorbonJHP+P 1050 220 9 0.58 70%
Fedr90grHydshok 1000 200 10.5 0.58 69%
Fedr90grJHP 1000 200 14 0.36 69%
.32auto
Win60grSilvertp 970 125 6.5 0.57 63%
71grFMJ 905 129 18.5 0.32 50%
The Gold-dot CCI-Speer .32 auto ammo is too new for definate data, but test results indicate .54 expansion with 8.3" penetration, indicating results comparable to the Silvertip, with better penetration.
.22 and .25 caliber pocket pistols are nearly useless for self defense. In particular, the .25 auto has the worst ballistics and stopping power of any handgun caliber. While a .22long or .22magnum may inflict an eventually-fatal wound, they have little ability to incapacitate or STOP an attacker, making them unsuitable to defense.
The famed .44 magnum, preferably in a Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk, is an excellent field or big-game handgun-hunting round. It is not really suitable for defense. Recoil and muzzle blast are a problem for many shooters, and reduce the quickness and accuracy of follow-up shots; the .44 mag also tends to overpenetrate, and its added power does not significantly increase practical stopping power, as the following table shows:
Load vel. energy penetr F.dia One-stop
.44mag
Win210grSilvertip 1250 729 15 0.66 90%
Corbon180gUrban 1200 576 15 0.70 90%
.44spec
Win200grSilvertip 810 292 10 0.61 75%
CCI200grGold dot 875 340 14 0.64 84%
Exotic heavy-handgun calibers like the .454 Casul and .50AE, have far too much recoil and muzzle blast for all but the most dedicated shooters to master, and the increase in practical stopping power is small. Therefore, such loads are not considered here.
A statistical comparison of the various calibers and extrapolating from actual-shooting one-shot stop percentages, shows the THEORETICAL number of torso-hits required to achieve 99.9%+ stopping power. Note that this is for comparison purposes, NOT as a guide to "how many times to shoot". It does, however, reveal something about the relative effectiveness of various calibers.
Caliber and Load One-shot-stop THEORETICAL #hits*
.45 230grHydshok 94% 3
.44mag 210grSilvtp 90% 3
.40 Corbon135grJHP 96% 2
.357mag 125grJHP 96% 2
9mm Corbon115grJHP+P 91% 3
.38sp Corbn115grJHP+P 83% 4
.380 Corbon90grJHP+P 70% 6
.32 Silvertip 63% 6 The various information in this article reveals much about hangun ballistics and stopping power; however, no theory is absolute and for every rule there are exceptions. In some cases, police have shot an individual repeatedly with 9mm and even .40 handguns, and had that individual continue to return fire...a point to keep in mind.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/calloadgoshin.htm

[SShepherd]

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0803/0803.3051.pdf


I suggest this for reading.

The FBI recommends that loads
intended for self-defense and law
enforcement applications meet a
minimum penetration requirement of 12”
in ballistic gelatin.[8] Maximizing ballistic
pressure wave effects requires
transferring maximum energy in a
penetration distance that meets this
requirement. In addition, bullets that
fragment and meet minimum
penetration requirements generate
higher pressure waves than bullets
which do not fragment. Understanding
the potential benefits of remote ballistic
pressure wave effects leads us to favor
loads with at least 500 ft-lbs of energy.

[Av8r3400]

I also have a philosophy on that.

If your .22 holds 6 or 10 rounds, once you have made the decision to shoot there's no sense in saving any for tomorrow. Let them all rip.

...and you will wind up defending yourself from some type of "excessive force" charge.

Scenario: After the first double tap from your .22 and the target is on the floor wounded (but certainly not dead) and you pump the rest of the 8 shots into it on the floor, will be charged with something. Probably murder.

With the .380 JHP rounds, the first double tap kills the target on it's feet or wounds it sufficiently to bleed out while you render first aid. (Which you must attempt.) Mission accomplished.