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View Full Version : Microsoft Announcement.......


Junkman
07-12-2006, 11:03 AM
Announcement
End of support for Windows 98, Windows Me, and Windows XP Service Pack 1
Effective today, Microsoft no longer provides support for Windows 98, Windows Millennium Edition (Windows Me), and Windows XP Service Pack 1. Customers can access existing support documents through the Microsoft Support Product Solution Center, but telephone and e-mail support and security updates are not available.

Cowboyjg
07-12-2006, 11:12 AM
Hmmmmmm.........(See reply to Junks prison joke)

buckle97
07-12-2006, 01:36 PM
XP Service Pack 1 is actually supported through October 10, 2006. The others are no longer supported. It seems like Microsoft is trying to make their "lifecycle's" shorter and shorter.

Snowcat Operations
07-18-2006, 04:14 PM
Just another reason to add to the list of why I have now gone to Mac. Purchased an iMac last week and simply LOVE IT. Talk about blazingly FAST!!!!! It even has the new Duo Processor so if I have to I can use my Mircosoft programs BUT WONT! My brother was telling me I couldnt surf with it. NOPE. I have not had any problems on any forum or any other web site. Just my 2 cents worth.

Melensdad
07-18-2006, 04:31 PM
My brother was telling me I couldnt surf with it. I am constantly amazed by the mis-informaiton about Mac's.

I am the only Mac user at my office (actually there are several who prefer them but I am the only one with a Mac at work). The computer guys absolutely hate them. I'm still trying to figure out why.

Let's see, for me to take one of the Macintosh computers and connect up to the wireless network at the office I have to open my laptop and wait about 1.5 seconds while it automatically connects and configures itself. I've used 3 different Mac laptops at the office without any problems (14" iBook, 10" G4 PowerBook, 15" MacBookPro)



Now to connect up a windows laptop on of the MIS people sent me this in response to my question on how to connect to the system . . .On May 25, 2006, at 10:27 AM, Doug Jordan wrote:

If you feel lucky you can make the changes yourself:
Wireless SSID: wrt54g
Wireless Network Mode: open
Security Mode: WEP
Transmit Key: 1
Wep key: 92368A9D3
WEP Encryption: 64bit

Additional settings if needed.
Authentication Type: auto
Basic Rate: default(any)
Transmission Rate: default(any)
CTS Protection Mode: disabled
Frame Burst: disabled
Beacon Interval: 100
DTIM Interval: 1
Fragmentation Threshold: 2346
RTS Threshold: 2346
AP Isolation : off

PBinWA
07-18-2006, 04:52 PM
Ummm . . .Apple market share = 3-5%, closed hardware, higher price (include the hardware) Legacy hardware and software support = minimal. Easier to use = yes.

Microsoft market share 92+ %, open hardware, lower price, more legacy hardware and software support. Easier to use = probably not.

Each platform has their strengths and weaknesses. I'd say Mac's attract a kookier user base though. Right Bob?

Melensdad
07-18-2006, 05:24 PM
I'd say Mac's attract a kookier user base though. Right Bob?Generally I'd agree that Mac users are a bit different. Perhaps 'enlightened' is a word that better describes Mac users and sets them apart from the unwasheed masses of the Windows world.:5boobs:

Dargo
07-18-2006, 05:33 PM
Wireless SSID: wrt54g

Bob!! You are still on "g"???!! Wake up man! Go to "N" MIMO. Your wireless connection then will run at 300 mbps. With "G" I seemed to be lucky to get 10 mbps. :pat:

Now, for that tidbit that won't cost you squat but will speed you up big time, you owe me all the inside secrets of running a Mac. As soon as I make sure I don't go to debtors prison for taxes, I think I'm going to buy a Mac that I can dock in my office or take with me.

Melensdad
07-18-2006, 05:39 PM
Dargo, we have to maintain the backwards compatibility to the older equipement we run. We have so many generations of product in the office that it creates job security for the computer geeks who work there.

Dargo
07-18-2006, 05:45 PM
Dargo, we have to maintain the backwards compatibility to the older equipement we run. We have so many generations of product in the office that it creates job security for the computer geeks who work there.

N MiMo is backwards compatable. My son still uses the G card in his laptop and gets the slower G speeds, and my daughter still uses her B laptop. Just add a N card to your Mac and it will be every bit as fast as being wired direct.

California
07-18-2006, 07:24 PM
I am constantly amazed by the mis-informaiton about Mac's.... The computer guys absolutely hate them. I'm still trying to figure out why.

Bob, many of us who have done computer support have been burned badly by mis-information our Mac users were told by the Mac salesman. My first encounter with a Mac was when the big boss ordered one outside normal procurement and expected to do as you just did - just plug it in and expect it to find the network, as she had been told. Of course it was my fault that I hadn't anticipated her new Mac so I hadn't ordered the Novell option that at the time could only let Macs (just hers) talk to each other in a separate segregated Novell partition unseen by the secretaries pc's. In fact she bought the Mac when this 'integration' software was still vaporware so she not only had no way to share her documents, but we would have had to run separate Appletalk cabling if she needed to immediately share with any other Mac she bought for her top managers.

Next she discovered she couldn't sneakernet her diskettes to the secretares either, because they couldn't read them on their pc's. Somehow this was also my fault. So she printed her thoughts on her mac-only laserWriter for the secretaries to retype, and smugly proclaimed her Postscript was so gorgeous that the secretaries didn't mind typing all her stuff from scratch.

Ok, that was the beginning of my Mac experience. The end was when I paid good money for a used Personal Laserwriter for my sister, assuming she would love it as much as I like the HP Laserjet IIIp's that I still use today - many years after they were first sold (1989). You guessed it, the Mac version of this Canon -based printer was intentionally compatible only with 1989 era Macs, not universal like the nearly-identical HP IIIp's. Even the USB to serial adapters that came on the market later couldn't talk to it, Apple's adaptation had made it an unsupportable orphan.

I'm sure the users love them but the burden on support staff to make them perform the promised magic is a pain in the ass. And the user never believes they need any support since thats what they were told by the salesman.

Mac had over 15% market share back then, it's under 5% now. I'm sure they are pleasant for their users but I'll bet you still need an unseen magician somewhere in the organiation to make them work seamlessly with the rest of the organization.

Sorry, I don't usually rant in the mac threads but his was, after all, a Microsoft Win 98 etc thread. Are the 1998 Mac's (OS 8?) still supported and viable?

Bah humbug. I suppose if someone had ever bought me a Mac I would love it, but all my experience was trying to integrate it when I never had my hands on one. And the organization wouldn't pay for any training on how the magic works because 'they're so easy to use'.

Bob, see if that antagonistic support guy recognises anything familiar in this post.:D

Melensdad
07-18-2006, 07:44 PM
Interestingly enough, none of the computer support guys actually do any support for my Mac. It is my task to provide my own support. And just for reference, if you recall the old TV show "SPIN CITY" with Mayor Winston as the mayor of New York, you can picture bumbling Mayor Winston as me.

So that said, what I can tell you is that if I plug any of my Macs into the ethernet cable at the office, I need to go to open the tab on my toolbar that is the "INTERNET CONNECT" funciton, I then need to select Ethernet, I then need to select the auto configure options. It takes a few moments and then I am connected to my network via physical connection. I can access the AS/400s, the network printers, etc. If I choose to connect wirelessly, I simply open the computer, nothing more. (it is my default).

Now I was actually the guy who installed our wireless network and the computer guys didn't even know I did it! What the heck did that take? Well I opened the box of the AirPort Extreme, connected the power cord, connected the ethernet cable and ran a simple program to configure the thing. It took about 10 minutes.

Later the computer geeks who sit in the glass room decided they liked the wireless network so they added a couple more units made by Linksys(?) and those required real effort to set up. Further, if a Windows computer wants to link up they have to be configured with all those codes I posted earlier (but actually I mixed up the codes when I posted them so you can't actually use the ones I posted here). However, if they come within range of my Apple Airport Extreme transmitter with their windows laptops they can connect up fairly easily (as long as they have the permission/security code).

I'm still wondering why I pay to have several support people on hand when it takes so little to support a Mac. Honestly it has to cost A LOT MORE to own/maintain/support a $599 Dell than it takes to keep a $1199 Apple.

Snowcat Operations
07-18-2006, 09:44 PM
Bob I have to agree! I took my computer out of the box. That took all of 2 minutes. I then pluged it into the battery back up. Another couple of minutes because I had to unpack that too. Turned it on. Everything came up in seconds NOT minutes. HHMMmm. I wasnt sure if it was done loading so I checked and it was! OK so now I started to look around and I found a radio signal/ strength bar showing a signal upper right hand on the screen. So I click on that. Id say about another minute. Called my nieghbor who runs our wireless network for the password. Another minute and I was surfing the web. So in under 10 minutes I was unpacked and surfing. Now I had unpacked it before to show the wife but knew I didnt have the password (forgot it) so I repacked the comp so the little ones wouldnt play around it. So other than showing the wife and seeing the comp at the store I have never touched a MAC before. Try that with a PC!

thcri
07-18-2006, 10:22 PM
I think my next laptop will be a MAC if I get the DUO processor in it. I have one software program that I use everyday that does not work on the MAC so I am told.

But worth trying some day


murph

Doc
07-19-2006, 07:08 AM
I'm still wondering why I pay to have several support people on hand when it takes so little to support a Mac. Honestly it has to cost A LOT MORE to own/maintain/support a $599 Dell than it takes to keep a $1199 Apple.

If the PC was not a dell but one you build yourself with quality componets I can't imagine why paying twice the price would be cheaper. It's not for me. I run both Windoze and Linux at home and at work. I can build a quality system for 600 or less. I'm sure it does not cost me 600 bucks to support it.

I suppose if we ran Mac at work, I might have one at home, but we don't. I think it's one thing to support one system and hook it into an existing environment but to run a whole environment of all Macs, then you might appreciate what your pc support folks have to deal with. It gets much more complex to do simple tasks for many machines than just managing one system.
I have never heard of a mid to large sized office running all Macs. I wonder why?

beds
07-19-2006, 09:20 AM
All of these "geeks" aside, the only reason why someone should buy a PC over a Mac for home use is software. And the only reason why people should make their decision based on software is if they are already limited - like taking work home or connectivity to work or "I must have this game". The Mac is, and always has been, the out-of-the-box best solution. Windows has always been an inferior copy of the MAC OS for personal use.

MadReferee
07-19-2006, 09:35 AM
Windows has always been an inferior copy of the MAC OS for personal use.

Hogwash. A blatent lie at best. Looks like just another MS basher.

If MAC's were so great why do they have less than 5% (closer to 3% really) market share? There has got to be a reason and it probably has to do with price, available hardware options, and software.

As for the dual processor on MAC's, if you want to run MS software why didn't you buy a real PC in the first place? Spending big bucks (compared to a PC) for a glorified emulator is a waste of your hard earned money.

I have several Fortune 500 companies as clients. MAC's are virtually non-existant in their facilities. Why? Because there is little to no support, little to no optional hardware available in the market place, little to no software applications, little to no development being done, etc, etc. When you can get a DELL PC that out of the box runs XP with little or no support effort involved and costs much much less, the choice to purchase a PC is a no brainer.

Leave the MAC's for the geeks and nerds. Real people who want to do real work choose PC's. That's a fact.

set /rant=off

MadReferee
07-19-2006, 09:41 AM
Back to the original topic, Microsoft wanted to stop support of W98 a few years ago but were pressured to continue support for another few years by their larger customers. Alot had to do with problems inherent in W2000.

Some people just don't understand what it takes to support software that has several million lines of code, and to test every single path and permutation that can possibly happen. It's a massive effort, especially when one of the system's goals is to have things be able to seamlessly talk to each other.

I have been there, and done that.

beds
07-19-2006, 09:53 AM
When you can get a DELL PC that out of the box runs XP with little or no support effort involved and costs much much less, the choice to purchase a PC is a no brainer.

I agree! When that day comes, computer newbies should get a PC.:yum:

btw, I've only owned PCs starting my PC XT back in '85.

Dargo
07-19-2006, 10:43 AM
Gees, am I the only guy "on the fence" here?

Also, just to make Bob cringe, does anyone recall the thread about when to throw something away? Well, I still have a perfect condition IBM XT computer from 1985. :o It's sitting on a shelf in my barn. You know, you never know when you just may need one. :whistle:

Melensdad
07-19-2006, 10:51 AM
Perhaps I am not a typical Mac user because I am not Mac-addicted. My history of PC started wtih a Texas Instraments running TI-Dos and a Wyse PC running Wyse-Dos. Both were had floppy drives and something like 20 or maybe 40 meg hard drives. The year, 1982. Windows was not commerically viable at the time. The next computer was a Compu-Add, it was a 286 machine and it ran an early version of Windows. I was hooked. Devoted to Windows.

Not sure when, but I started doing some real graphics work so I looked at Apple. The Apple Lisa. Too damn expensive so I passed. Later I looked again, and eventually bought an Apple. WOW it was different. It did graphics at screaming speeds and saved me a lot of time. Using emulators I was still able to do work on the System 36 IBM too. I needed conversion software to read Excel and Word documents, but at that time, Word was not that standard word processor used by all businesses. So even a lot of Windows people could not trade documents because the standard was still not set on Word. I switched back to Windows at work only because I needed a piece of software that only ran on Windows, the Apple came home and continued to work flawlessly. The Windows computer, crashed constantly, I'm pretty sure it was a Dell. I suffered with it for too long lost a lot of work in the crashes. A year or two later I bought an Apple G3 Tower because my old Apple was sitting at home, going strong and NEVER had a system crash is it 4 or 5 year life. Then an Apple G4 after that. Then an Apple iBook. Then a G4 PowerBook. Then the new MacBookPro I am using now. Simple reliability is why I bought what I bought. Price be damned, they do cost a bit more, but if I can have a computer that is faster than a bat out of hell and doesn't crash, that is what I will buy. What is the real expense? An extra couple hundred $$$ over a 2.5 year life? That is not much. Now both of the Apple towers are still working and used but not by me. My daughter has the G4 PowerBook, my wife has the iBook.

The old G4 PowerBook got a new battery but the screen is starting to dim. Its 3 years old my screen was on 14 hours a day, every day. The screen is still easy to read, but I actually changed to the MacBookPro for a larger screen size.

The iBook was a re-furbished deal, it has had a few minor problems with the power manager not re-charging the battery. It was something I have been able to fix by following the re-set instructions (it has had to have this done 4 or 5 times in the past year). It works fine when plugged in, and now works fine with the battery.

While owning all these Mac computers, I've still been using Windows computers and teaching people how to operate Word, Excel, Publisher, PageMaker and other programs on Windows computers. All during the process, I see people have their PCs crash and my Mac doesn't. All during the process compatibility has improved so that documents & spreadsheets now trade seemlessly between the operating systems. I can use iCal while the office staff uses Outlook and we can trade appointemnts, events, etc.

For me it was reliability. But I appreciate the ease of use too.

Dargo
07-19-2006, 11:56 AM
My IBM XT never crashed and still works...:whistle:

I just know that you wish you still had one of those with the screaming 8086 processor! :yankchain:

beds
07-19-2006, 12:15 PM
My IBM XT never crashed and still works...:whistle:

I just know that you wish you still had one of those with the screaming 8086 processor! :yankchain:Yeah, that Dos 3.1 was a bulletproof platform! Before they started cloning Apple's interface...

My XT was a turbo! Switchable between 6 and 8 MHz, I think! Being a "power" user, I always had it on 8...;)

jwstewar
07-19-2006, 12:18 PM
I used to use both Macs & PCs. Now mainly PCs, though I still have one customer that I do consulting for that runs Macs. I believe all of their machines are now OS X. I find the OS X very clumbsy. Not near as simple as the old Mac OS, maybe that is why I don't like OS X is because I'm used to the old OS and Windows and could/can do pretty much anything/everything in them. I have to hunt and search in X.

Like someone said, it is a whole different ball game setting one Airport Access Point up and one PC vs. a whole group of PCs and policies. Have been there and done that on both sides of the fence. Give me the Windows environment anyday of the week.

Just to make some others crinch, do you know how many patches Apple had last year? 81 Windows 85, so is one really any more secure than the other?:pat: :moon:

jwstewar
07-19-2006, 12:20 PM
Yeah, that Dos 3.1 was a bulletproof platform! Before they started cloning Apple's interface...

My XT was a turbo! Switchable between 6 and 8 MHz, I think! Being a "power" user, I always had it on 8...;)

I never understood the turbo button, I had one on my 386 SX 16 - I could drop it down to the 8 MHz. I think I only pushed it one time for one particular game, that I played for all of about 30 seconds. Never could understand the concept of paying for speed and then turning it off. It would be like buying a car and pulling half the spark plugs out of it.

Wannafish
07-19-2006, 03:27 PM
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/image.php?u=17&dateline=1153275252 (http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/member.php?u=17)

Thanks alot Murph!!
:pat:

bczoom
07-19-2006, 03:40 PM
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/image.php?u=17&dateline=1153275252 (http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/member.php?u=17)

Thanks alot Murph!!
:pat:
:yum: :pat: :yum: :pat: :yum: :pat:

Definitely laughing out loud now!!!!