View Full Version : 6.5 Grendel Accuracy with 123gr Lapua Scenar worse than 123gr WOLF?
12-29-2010, 09:35 PM
I don't get it. I'm shooting under 1" at 200 yards (.45 MOA) using factory WOLF loads, the cheapest 6.5 Grendel WOLF loads on the market (about 50-cents a shot). These WOLF loads are known far and wide to be inconsistent and inaccurate. They have a 123 grain soft lead point bullet that is nothing close to aerodynamic. But they are printing great groups for me.
Then I have boxes of $2+ a pop factory AA 123 grain Lapua Scenar rounds, known as an uber-accurate projectile with an amazingly high ballistic coefficient that blows holes all over the paper target EXCEPT the center of the target.
Anyone else have this problem?
12-30-2010, 12:35 AM
Well, in a manner of speaking, yes. My first center fire rifle back as a teen was a sporterized Argentine Mauser chambered in 7.65. It shot everything except the designated target with Norma loads, which were considered the best money could buy; sometimes it seemed to be trying to hit something in the next county. I bought it for my first deer gun but after seeing what it did with targets I actually considered throwing it in the trash. However, it finally ended up as a show-off piece on the wall, where it rested for nearly a year.
One day a friend decided he'd like to shoot it, just for shits and grins, but I only had seven rounds of the good (expensive!) Norma stuff, so we stopped and picked up some surplus crud with corrosive primers; 100 rounds for about the same price as a case of soda. You guessed it -- that cheap stuff was grouping under an inch at 100 yards! When we ran the "good" Norma loads through it right behind the cheap stuff, it was all over the paper, and at least once not on the paper at all. Later, when I told Kyle Snowhill, my gun guru, about the experience, his only comment was, "Sometimes, you just gotta feed the gun what it wants."
It sounds like your 6.5 is telling you the same thing my old 7.65 told me back there in the Dark Ages: "Don't pay any attention to what the experts tell you, just feed me what I want and I'll do you right!"
An expert is a guy from out of town. Had a similar problem with a sporterized 03-A3 Springfield back in the early 70's. It loved crap and reload ammo, but not the good store-bought stuff. It was deadly with home brew ammo in spite of the 2-groove barrel.
I've heard of this in the Grendel too for several reasons. What kind of barrel are you using? The barrels cut to AA spec have a stepped throat that works well with a lot of types of ammo. Some of the other barrels have a tighter throat which can give better accuracy, but is really picky about either the ogive shape of the bullet or the seating depth.
If you hand load, just find your best load. If you buy loaded ammo, you just have to find a load that works.
A lot of people have trouble after shooting the very accurate Nosler bullets. The copper is evidently very soft and leaves more in the barrel. You have to shoot 10 or 20 rounds of something else to blow it out, then the other bullets settle down.
Either that or shoot the Nosler last. The Wolf may have a similar problem.
02-18-2011, 01:48 PM
Guys there are barrels that will shoot the cheapest of ammo. It is unreal but it happens. We have a pistol shooter in the club that takes a box of 1000 rds .22 and beats the stuffing out of us every time and we're shooting Ely. His gun likes it. Go figure. If your gun shoots cheap your lucky. Let me give you new guys a big clue to shooting 6.5 bullets. They copper up a barrel so fast. We have to clean after every match of 60 rounds and if I could I would do it after 40. I mean Clean. Use a 7mm brush and scrub that copper out. I have changed barrels on 6.5 at least 5 times in the last 10 years. A 6.5/284 eats barrels. Their gone around 1000 rounds. Our grendels will last a bit longer but it's still a 6.5 and will copper up quick and cause you pressure problems if you don't stay on it.
02-18-2011, 02:03 PM
Thanks for the tips about cleaning. I figured a 6.5x284 would eat the barrel, there is probably throat erosion happening there too?
02-18-2011, 03:00 PM
Oh you bet. We order a new barrel with 5" or more of breech or less taper at the breech end. Try and re-chamber to get back to good groves and stretch another 800 rds maybe. You have to do the muzzel end also. I had some of the older gunsmiths that will leave the throut alone and just take muzzel end of barrel and bring the barrel back to good shooting. I've heard different numbers on the Grendel. Anybody you know of changed barrels and have a decent count on numbers of rounds fired? I heard from 1500-6000 on the old forum. A real spread and I'm sure type of barrel make a differance. Cut verse Air gage.
03-07-2011, 07:41 PM
Cut-rifled barrels have no cleaning problems for me---Satern, Rock, Bartlein
03-10-2011, 07:06 PM
I don't know if it makes an overall difference, but I think the Wolf also uses a large rifle primer, while AA and Hornady uses small rifle.
03-10-2011, 07:51 PM
Yes, Wolf does use a LARGE RIFLE PRIMER while all the others use the small. That seems odd to me. It strikes me that large primers in a small case can blow the bullet out the end of the case while it also ignites the powder. That may push the bullet into contact with the rifling???
03-10-2011, 08:51 PM
You would think primer size would make a difference.
03-15-2011, 10:26 AM
I know that we, and I mean shooters at Hoosier hills, have done enough comparision of all kinds of primers. Size and type matter. I thought they were crazy at first it's just a primer that starts the real action. Wrong. Russian primers work really well and the differance between Fed gold and winchester was up to 50 fps. Some loads worked well with them andothers didn't. Conclusion: your load testing is not done until you try some different primers. I have prefered CCI benchrest, Rem 7 1/2, and fed gold. But they do make a differance and this is something that was proved to me and I didn't believe it at first but it does. You'll need a chrongragh to see the differance in speed and you might have to waste a few rounds to find that majic mix.
03-15-2011, 11:01 AM
Where is "Hoosier Hills" ?
I'm in Indiana (northwest corner) and have not heard of that range.
03-15-2011, 11:10 AM
Just east of Nashville In. on hwy 46 to columbus and we have an indoor range in columbus with 10 postion range. The outdoor range is up to 200 yds with multiple target postions in between. Check out HHRP.org. Our High power program has gone down a bit but we have a great air gun league that caters to the youngsters. You probably know of the Fort Wayne bunch that shoot high power and of course Sinclair.
03-15-2011, 11:16 AM
Ahhh . . . too far away for me to travel for a day of shooting. I'm just 40 miles southeast of the city of Chicago, inside Indiana, but at the edge of the suburban sprawl just into the farm land.
I have access to Winamac, which has a nice bench and 200 yard range. Or my back fields, where I can shoot farther but don't have anything measured or a rock solid bench.
03-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Check out tubegun.net a couple of our guys and my best friends started this company that makes a kit that you fit a Rem 700 action into and thats what we use for long range and across the course in competion for those that prefer the bolt gun. Incredable accruacy with bench rest technology. Single shots and magazine types. Pretty cool. Miltary uses them and they have fans around the world.
03-15-2011, 11:30 AM
I've looked at those. Its pretty amazing.
03-15-2011, 12:00 PM
I think for the regular guy who likes to hunt and especially out west for big hunts it's the last word in rifle. I'm going to make a .308, with colapsable stock and probably 24 inch barrel for my hunting rifle. It maybe a little heavy but increadable confidence in what it will produce. Also with the rite bolt you can change barrels on these things like its nothing.
03-15-2011, 12:11 PM
For those not familiar with the TUBE GUN, here is the main receiver:
Built it looks very similar to an AR15, but its a bolt action gun instead of semi-auto.
03-15-2011, 12:21 PM
All other AR parts fit, stock, pistol grip. Very sleak and slinder like an AR. And any color you want. For extra charge of course but easy to do when you order. I say when your done you'll have about 12-1500.00 into it. The only regular stock rifle I'll ever buy again is the M1A and I have plans to drop an action and barrel into one of the new cut out type metal stocks to get away from Log wrestling. I say that because the first time I laid down on the 1000 yd line with the tube gun after shooting my .308 in a standard match stock. I never went back.
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