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One Amazing Hard Drive

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
This is a SMART report from the hard drive in my work computer. It is a 2000 model Gateway with a Western Digital drive. It has run 24 - 7 for ten years! Look at the number of hours powered on.

81839! If you take that 81839 and divide it by 24 hours, you get 3409.9 days. And divide that by 365 you get: 9.3 years.

No other hard drive I've ever been around has lasted that long. 5-6 years max.

untitled-8.jpg
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
That is a good cycle life. Mine is only off when we lose power. I would have to look at the old Win98 one downstairs. I know it ran continuous for over 6 years till i bought this one and got a new graphics card for it.
 

KenJackson

New member
Very good. :clap:

But you can't have been running ten years with no reboots. (That would be awesome even for FreeBSD.)

But have you reinstalled Windows in that ten years?
Has it been connected to the internet (and thus susceptible to attack) during that 10 years?

I routinely run Linux 2 months between reboots, and I think once I ran my NetBSD system for 9 months before I rebooted it to upgraded something. But I've never run anything for a whole year.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
In my datacenter we routinely run servers without a reboot for over one year but never ever have we made it to two years. All the servers in questions run Linux Red Hat. Our Windows servers routinely get the updates and are rebooted at that time.

Our planned life cycle for a server is 3 years of 24x7 running. As we get over two years in we notice more and more of the hard drives start failing. Since the hard drive is the primary 'moving part' of the server, if you can extend the life of the hard drive you have extended the life of the server.

Good info Tsaw!!!!! :thumb:
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Very good. :clap:

But you can't have been running ten years with no reboots. (That would be awesome even for FreeBSD.)

But have you reinstalled Windows in that ten years?
Has it been connected to the internet (and thus susceptible to attack) during that 10 years?

I routinely run Linux 2 months between reboots, and I think once I ran my NetBSD system for 9 months before I rebooted it to upgraded something. But I've never run anything for a whole year.

Sorry.. I should have been clearer.
The power on data is cumulative. It's not the "Up Time" of the operating system. Looking at the "Power Cycle" info, it was rebooted 547 times. Had Win ME - Win 98 - and XP installed over the years. Has been off the internet since 2002. No virus protection, no updates.

I can say however that I know it went at least 8 months at one time without a crash or re-boot.
I had PC Wizard that reported the up-time.
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
In my datacenter we routinely run servers without a reboot for over one year but never ever have we made it to two years. All the servers in questions run Linux Red Hat. Our Windows servers routinely get the updates and are rebooted at that time.

Our planned life cycle for a server is 3 years of 24x7 running. As we get over two years in we notice more and more of the hard drives start failing. Since the hard drive is the primary 'moving part' of the server, if you can extend the life of the hard drive you have extended the life of the server.

Thank goodness for RAID huh Doc?
At home I don't have a RAID setup - or use a back-up program. I just have the stuff I can't live without on more that one hard drive. The chances of both drives going out at the exact same time are almost null.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Yep, thank goodness for RAID!!!!! :thumb:
On the servers we normally would get the fastest spindle speed availalbe and that is what I contribute the higher than normal rate of drive failure. I've had drive last 7+ years at home but they are the slower cheaper drives. Works for me.
I do like you Tom and keep the important data on two or three different drives so that I don't loose much if anything when a drive does fail. I've found many times the drive will make a funny noise warning of the impending failure. :D
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Yep, thank goodness for RAID!!!!! :thumb:
On the servers we normally would get the fastest spindle speed availalbe and that is what I contribute the higher than normal rate of drive failure. I've had drive last 7+ years at home but they are the slower cheaper drives. Works for me.
I do like you Tom and keep the important data on two or three different drives so that I don't loose much if anything when a drive does fail. I've found many times the drive will make a funny noise warning of the impending failure. :D

Oh yea... That "click of death" I've always been lucky. When a drive does that.. I mirror it just in time before it's done.
 

mak2

Active member
I so have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about. I just wanted to say that.
 
D

darroll

Guest
Be careful with limited warrantees, they are limited all right.
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Be careful with limited warrantees, they are limited all right.

I thought you said they only offer a 1 year warranty on hard drives now. I must have misunderstood. I guess you were talking about something else.
 
D

darroll

Guest
Microsoft
http://www.pcmech.com/article/do-hard-drive-warranties-matter/
has said they intend on releasing a brand new version of Windows every three years, starting with Windows 7. We’ll fast-forward the clock three years from now to 2012, and assume you have the same PC you did three years ago with the same components. If you have one of those one-year warranty drives in your system, there is the possibility it may not be supported in the new version of Windows due to the fact it had such a short shelf life.
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Microsoft

has said they intend on releasing a brand new version of Windows every three years, starting with Windows 7. We’ll fast-forward the clock three years from now to 2012, and assume you have the same PC you did three years ago with the same components. If you have one of those one-year warranty drives in your system, there is the possibility it may not be supported in the new version of Windows due to the fact it had such a short shelf life.

Now that is funny as hell.:clap:
Didn't know you were being funny.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Bump.

I have Windows XP
Is there a base product utility to check hours and stuff or do I need software? If the latter, what's recommended?
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I didn't see this post when until now. I find it surprising that it's a Western Digital drive. Due to a gag order in the settlement I cannot divulge much information, but Western Digital got caught red handed selling refurbished drives as new at Best Buy. I bought a "new" WD drive from Best Buy to put in a computer I was building. I was shocked when I powered the computer on for a check and it started booting up Windows!

I let it continue to boot and I clearly had a drive that was previously used as a drive for the accounting department of a reasonably sized business. I thought it was some odd joke. Out of curiosity, I called the company's phone number on their stored letterhead and was shocked that it was answered by that company name! I then asked to speak to someone in upper management to let them know I had all their payroll information and much, much more.

I was bounced around and treated somewhat rudely until I told a "mid level" manager exactly what he made last year, his home address, unlisted home phone number and his SS number. All hell broke loose then! Within an hour I had some huge law firm calling me demanding that I immediately hand over the hard drive and they were going to seek charges against me. WTF?! I only bought what I thought was a brand new WD hard drive from Best Buy. I told them "no" and that I'd have an attorney call them.

Almost 2 years later WD settled with me for a minor amount and with that company for a major amount and admitted to selling refurbished drives as new drives. A company my law firm contracted saw that WD did such a poor job of hiding their fraud that they simply placed a new label directly over the original label on the old hard drive! For the trial they carefully pealed back a corner of the sticker on the drive that clearly revealed a much older manufacture date on the original label.

If you're curious as to when this happened, just look up the stock history of Western Digital. This occurred during that precipitous spike drop in their value. To save money, they elected to sell refurbished drives as new. To be honest, I'm surprised they survived. They must have had some substantial funds to pay that company whose data I received. I'm glad I only contacted that company and my law firm about the data. If I'd shared any of that info with others it would have been a much longer trial and I seriously doubt WD could have survived.

Just thought I'd share what I can (at least I hope I haven't given too much info - I guess I'll see) about WD's dirty little secret.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Very interesting Brent.
The craziest part to me is if they refurbish the drive it should at the very least have been formated. They screwed up big time letting it out with the OS and bussinesses info still in tact on it (of course the business screwed up in the 1st place letting a drive like that be returned with data still on it). :pat:

I have installed that disk tool I linked to in my post above. the untility works pretty good. I don't understand all the numbers yet but where Tom's old drive had
a Value of 1 and worst of 1 with raw value of 81389
mine has
a Value of 99 and worst of 99 with a raw value of 541
(I can't capture the image or I'd show it ... but this is for the power on time variable that Tom has highlighted in his post.
 

KenJackson

New member
... what he made last year, his home address, unlisted home phone number and his SS number.
Scary!

On a similar note, I read an article about photocopier machines. It seems today's machines make a digital image and then print it with regular laser printer technology. And they have hard drives on which they keep copies of everything they copy.

Most people don't know that, so when they sell a used photocopier, they're selling everything they ever copied.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
That is true about the copiers. They have an actual hard drive inside that stores it all.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Scary!

On a similar note, I read an article about photocopier machines. It seems today's machines make a digital image and then print it with regular laser printer technology. And they have hard drives on which they keep copies of everything they copy.

Most people don't know that, so when they sell a used photocopier, they're selling everything they ever copied.

Yeah, I didn't know that until a year or two ago. Hopefully that copier that has a stored copy of jim and the twins has been destroyed. Ah, still, there's not enough evidence to identify me anyway. :sad:
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Very interesting Brent.
The craziest part to me is if they refurbish the drive it should at the very least have been formated. They screwed up big time letting it out with the OS and bussinesses info still in tact on it (of course the business screwed up in the 1st place letting a drive like that be returned with data still on it). :pat:

I have installed that disk tool I linked to in my post above. the untility works pretty good. I don't understand all the numbers yet but where Tom's old drive had
a Value of 1 and worst of 1 with raw value of 81389
mine has
a Value of 99 and worst of 99 with a raw value of 541
(I can't capture the image or I'd show it ... but this is for the power on time variable that Tom has highlighted in his post.

Sorry for the formatting Doc.

The SMART Attributes list in the DiskCheckup "SMART Info" window contains all SMART attributes supported by the currently selected drive. (See What is SMART? for more information)
The Attributes
ID
Name
Raw value is better when*
Description**
1
Raw Read Error Rate
Lower​
Represents the rate of uncorrected read errors
2
Throughput Performance
Higher​
Represents the throughput performance of the drive. I.e. The speed at which the drive is reading and writing data.
3
Spin Up Time
Lower​
Represents the average amount of time required to spin up the drive spindle to operational speed from a stopped state.
4
Start/Stop Count
Lower​
Represents the number of start/stop cycles for the drive. The raw value indicates the count of start/stop cycles for the drive. The drive being powered on/off or suspended/woken up are considered as start/stop cycles.
5
Reallocated Sector Count
Lower​
Represents the amount of spare sector pool available. Spare sectors are used to replace sectors that became bad for some reason (for instance, if a read error occurs). Therefore the more sectors reallocated, the worse the condition of the drive.
7
Seek Error Rate
Lower​
Represents the number of seek errors. Each time the drive attempts a seek operation, but fails to position its head correctly, the seek error rate increases.
8
Seek Time Performance
Higher​
Represents how efficiently the drive is performing seek operations. A low value indicates problems with the drive subsystem, for instance the servo responsible for positioning the head.
9
Power On Hours Count
Higher​
This is an informative attribute, the raw value of which displays the number of hours the drive has been powered on for.
A
Spin Retry Count
Lower​
Represents the number of times a drive fails to spin its spindle up to operation speed on the first attempt.
B
Calibration Retry Count
Higher​
Calibration is the act of repositioning the drive read/write head to cylinder 0. This value represents the number of times a calibration has failed on the first attempt.
C
Power Cycle Count
Lower​
Informative attribute, the raw value of which represents the number of drive power on/drive power off cycles for the disk.
D
Soft Read Error Rate
Lower​
Uncorrected read errors reported to the operating system.
BE
Temperature Difference from 100
Unkown​
The exact specification of this attribute is not quite stable. This is what it is known as on Seagate drives whereas it is called Airflow Temperature on Western Digital hard disks. In either case this attribute usually has to do with subtracting the temperature from 100 to give a value that is worse when it is lower.
BF
G-Sense Error Rate
Lower​
Frequency of mistakes as a result of impact loads
C0
Power-off Retract Count
Lower​
Number of times the heads are loaded off the media. Heads can be unloaded without actually powering off.
C1
Load/Unload Cycle
Lower​
Count of load/unload cycles into head landing zone position.
C2
Temperature
Lower​
Informative attribute, the raw value of which represents the current temperature in Celsius of the drive.
C3
Hardware ECC Recovered
Higher​
Time between ECC-corrected errors.
C4
Reallocation Event Count
Lower​
Represents the number of reallocation events, which have taken place. Sometimes multiple sectors are reallocated together – this corresponds to one reallocation event. (See also: Reallocated Sector Count and Current Pending Sector Count).
C5
Current Pending Sector Count
Lower​
Represents the number of sectors currently pending reallocation.
C6
Uncorrectable Sector Count
Lower​
The total number of uncorrectable errors when reading/writing a sector.
C7
UltraDMA CRC Error Count
Lower​
Represents the number of CRC error found in the Ultra DMA high-speed transfer mode. (CRC stands for Cyclic Redundancy Check and is data verification algorithm which uses polynomial checksums).
C8
Write Error Count
Lower​
Represents the rate of uncorrected write errors. Lower raw values indicate that there is a problem with either disk surface or read/write heads.
C9
Soft Read Error Rate
Lower​
Number of off-track errors.
CA
Data Address Mark errors
Lower​
Number of Data Address Mark errors
CB
Run Out Cancel
Lower​
Number of ECC errors
CC
Soft ECC Correction
Lower​
Number of errors corrected by software ECC.
CD
Thermal asperity rate(TAR)
Lower​
Number of thermal asperity errors.
CE
Flying Height
Unknown​
Height of heads above the disk surface.
CF
Spin High Current
Unknown​
Amount of high current used to spin up the drive.
D0
Spin Buzz
Unknown​
Number of buzz routines to spin up the drive
D1
Offline Seek Performance
Unknown​
Drive’s seek performance during offline operations
DC
Disk Shift
Lower​
Distance the disk has shifted relative to the spindle (usually due to shock).
DD
G-Sense Error Rate
Lower​
The number of errors resulting from externally-induced shock & vibration.
DE
Loaded Hours
Lower​
Time spent operating under data load (movement of magnetic head armature)
DF
Load/Unload Retry Count
Unknown​
Number of times head changes position.
E0
Load Friction
Lower​
Resistance caused by friction in mechanical parts while operating.
E1
Load/Unload Cycle Count
Lower​
Total number of load cycles
E2
Load 'In'-time
Unknown​
Total time of loading on the magnetic heads actuator (time not spent in parking area).
E3
Torque Amplification Count
Unknown​
Number of attempts to compensate for platter speed variations
E4
Power-off Retract Count
Lower​
The number of times the magnetic armature was retracted automatically as a result of cutting power.
E6
GMR Head Amplitude
Unknown​
Amplitude of "thrashing" (distance of repetitive forward/reverse head motion)
E7
Temperature
Unknown​
Drive Temperature, unknown units.
F0
Head Flying Hours
Unknown​
Time while head is positioning
FA
Read Error Retry Rate
Lower​
Number of errors while reading from a disk
*Raw values are an absolute reading of an attribute as reported by the hard disk; what constitutes a high or a low value will differ between attributes and hard disk models. If you are unsure of how to interpret these values it is better to observe the normalized value, see What is SMART? for more information.
**Descriptions for several of the attributes are taken from various sources on the web including wikipedia.org
 
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